In this episode of the FindingSustainia – Meyer & Meyer Podcast, Anna and Santa are joined by our lovely team member Ann Moradian – dancer, choreographer, and expert in embodiment, somatic intelligence, and decision-making under uncertainty. Find out more about her work via www.perspectivesinmotion.org

Together, we explore a question that sits at the very core of change work:

How do we relate to uncertainty without collapsing into stress, control, or burnout?

Ann shares why uncertainty is not a mental problem but a deeply physical experience, how it shows up in the nervous system, breath, organs, and posture – and why many of our decisions suffer when we operate from fight, flight, or freeze. We talk about embodiment as a source of real-time information, how creativity and joy signal capacity, and why better decisions require safety in the body, not just clarity in the mind.

The conversation moves from theory to practice: how to recognise when we are operating below our capacity, how small embodied practices can restore flow, and why movement, pauses, and attention to the body are essential for leaders, changemakers, and sustainability professionals navigating complexity.

The episode also offers a preview of the New Year’s Reset (January 4, 2026), where Ann joins Anna and Santa to create a shared space for reflection, embodiment, visualisation, and intentional direction-setting for the year ahead.

A thoughtful, practical, and deeply human conversation about uncertainty, embodiment, and staying grounded while working on the frontlines of change.

Please register for the New Year’s Reset here: https://www.findingsustainia.com/new-year-s-reset

In dieser Folge des Meyer & Meyer Podcasts sind Anna und Santa endlich wieder gemeinsam mit Scott zu hören – zu dritt, wie in guten alten Zeiten. Was als lockerer Rückblick gedacht war, wird zu einem ehrlichen, lebendigen Gespräch über Überraschungen, Learnings und Richtungswechsel.

Wir sprechen darüber, warum Tooltime völlig unerwartet zu einem der stärksten Formate von FindingSustainia geworden ist. Warum „einfach machen“ oft wirksamer ist als Perfektion. Wie KI sich als starker, demokratisierender Hebel für Changemaker, Führungskräfte und Nachhaltigkeitsverantwortliche etablieren könnte – und warum ethische Fragen dabei von Anfang an mitgedacht werden müssen.

Gleichzeitig geht es um das, was nicht funktioniert hat: begrenzte Reichweite, schwierige Kooperationen, gebrochene Versprechen – und die Erkenntnis, dass man nicht alles selbst machen kann. Wir teilen offen, was wir daraus gelernt haben, warum Partnerschaften auf Augenhöhe so entscheidend sind und weshalb komplementäre Zusammenarbeit mehr bringt als Gleichgesinnung.

Zum Abschluss blicken wir nach vorn: auf den New Year’s Reset, neue Einstiegsformate wie den KI-Kompass und den Burn Bright Plan – und auf die Frage, wie wir auch in Zeiten von Unsicherheit wirksam bleiben, ohne auszubrennen.

Ein persönliches, humorvolles und ehrliches Gespräch über Wirkung, Lernen, Community – und darüber, wie Veränderung wirklich entsteht.

In this episode of the FindingSustainia podcast, we sit down with Joss Tantram, sustainability professional, writer, former WWF employee, and WBCSD contributor, to talk about the real terrain of change: uncertainty, momentum that comes and goes, and how to stay effective without burning out.

We unpack Joss’s work on corporate disclosure and “uncertainty” in sustainability, why facts matter but never tell the whole story, and how young professionals can find their sphere of influence without getting overwhelmed. We also explore the power of networks, the loneliness many sustainability practitioners experience inside organisations, and why a clear vision can be motivating even if it’s never fully “achieved.”

Joss closes with his vision of a future that works for 9–10 billion people—not by magic, but through systems that respect planetary limits and expand real human opportunity.

• 00:03 Welcome and introduction to Joss Tantram

• 02:09 How this conversation started: a report, a critique, and an unexpected reply

• 04:36 The WBCSD project: why “uncertainty” became the core topic

• 08:45 “Mr Uncertainty”: why sustainability work often means swimming against the tide

• 11:35 Sustainability’s ebbs and flows—and managing expectations so you don’t burn out

• 13:51 The fine line between realism and cynicism: “willful optimism”

• 16:13 Individualism vs collectivism: where change actually happens

• 19:42 A practical tool: spheres of concern, influence, and control

• 25:04 Talking about influence with children—and what it reveals about adults

• 29:50 Early-career tension: big ambition, small levers, and the value of small steps

• 33:21 Knowledge, skills, networks, resources, reputation: what really matters, and when

• 38:20 Why networks keep sustainability practitioners sane (and effective)

• 42:48 The profession is still “forming”: learning from what works and what fails

• 46:03 Why collaboration is hard: incentives, money, insecurity, and timing

• 50:52 “Pre-competitive” collaboration: where companies can work together honestly

• 54:50 Why sustainability isn’t “just uncertainty”: facts, systems, and the human factor

• 59:09 Sustainia 2050: Joss’s vision for 9–10 billion people within planetary limits

• 1:03:21 Where to find Joss’s work and the “9 Billion” idea

• 1:04:11 Closing: staying “willfully optimistic” and keeping humour in the work

• Uncertainty in sustainability reporting and decision-making

• Staying motivated when momentum disappears

• Avoiding burnout without becoming cynical

• Networks as a survival and impact tool for practitioners

• Vision as direction, not perfection

• Systems change, incentives, and “pre-competitive” collaboration

• Terrafinity: www.terrafinity.com

• Search: Joss Tantram + “9 Billion” for essays and longer pieces

Find more about us, upcoming formats, and new impulses at www.findingsustainia.com – or connect with us directly on LinkedIn (FindingSustainia) and Instagram (@findingsustainia).

If you enjoyed this episode, please give us a good rating so more people can discover the podcast – and help amplify positive change in our society.

What you’ll hear in this episodeKey themesLinks mentioned