In this episode of the FindingSustainia podcast, we sit down with Joss Tantram, sustainability professional, writer, former WWF employee, and WBCSD contributor, to talk about the real terrain of change: uncertainty, momentum that comes and goes, and how to stay effective without burning out.

We unpack Joss’s work on corporate disclosure and “uncertainty” in sustainability, why facts matter but never tell the whole story, and how young professionals can find their sphere of influence without getting overwhelmed. We also explore the power of networks, the loneliness many sustainability practitioners experience inside organisations, and why a clear vision can be motivating even if it’s never fully “achieved.”

Joss closes with his vision of a future that works for 9–10 billion people—not by magic, but through systems that respect planetary limits and expand real human opportunity.

• 00:03 Welcome and introduction to Joss Tantram

• 02:09 How this conversation started: a report, a critique, and an unexpected reply

• 04:36 The WBCSD project: why “uncertainty” became the core topic

• 08:45 “Mr Uncertainty”: why sustainability work often means swimming against the tide

• 11:35 Sustainability’s ebbs and flows—and managing expectations so you don’t burn out

• 13:51 The fine line between realism and cynicism: “willful optimism”

• 16:13 Individualism vs collectivism: where change actually happens

• 19:42 A practical tool: spheres of concern, influence, and control

• 25:04 Talking about influence with children—and what it reveals about adults

• 29:50 Early-career tension: big ambition, small levers, and the value of small steps

• 33:21 Knowledge, skills, networks, resources, reputation: what really matters, and when

• 38:20 Why networks keep sustainability practitioners sane (and effective)

• 42:48 The profession is still “forming”: learning from what works and what fails

• 46:03 Why collaboration is hard: incentives, money, insecurity, and timing

• 50:52 “Pre-competitive” collaboration: where companies can work together honestly

• 54:50 Why sustainability isn’t “just uncertainty”: facts, systems, and the human factor

• 59:09 Sustainia 2050: Joss’s vision for 9–10 billion people within planetary limits

• 1:03:21 Where to find Joss’s work and the “9 Billion” idea

• 1:04:11 Closing: staying “willfully optimistic” and keeping humour in the work

• Uncertainty in sustainability reporting and decision-making

• Staying motivated when momentum disappears

• Avoiding burnout without becoming cynical

• Networks as a survival and impact tool for practitioners

• Vision as direction, not perfection

• Systems change, incentives, and “pre-competitive” collaboration

• Terrafinity: www.terrafinity.com

• Search: Joss Tantram + “9 Billion” for essays and longer pieces

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What you’ll hear in this episodeKey themesLinks mentioned