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Dr. Kinsey Hansen shares her research on the co-construction of psychological safety among leaders and followers in organizations, and gives real world tips on how she’s been integrating followership into her leadership courses.

Kinsey is an Associate Professor at Angelo State University, where she serves as Program Coordinator for the Master of Arts in Administrative Leadership and teaches in the Student Development and Leadership program. She is part of the team that designed and launched ASU's Doctorate of Education in Transformative Leadership, contributing to its structure, curriculum development, and now serving as a dissertation chair. With a career spanning community college and university leadership, Kinsey brings both scholarly expertise and deep practitioner experience to her work

• “Followers shape culture every single day through the choices that they make.”
• “For leaders, the most powerful thing you can do is model followership in your own upward relationships.”
• “What teaches people whether it’s safe to speak up is what happened to the last person that spoke up.”
• “It’s powerful when the student sees the relational nature of the dynamic and identifies just how much followers shape leadership”
• “Once students see that followers influence leaders, they can’t unsee it.”

Episode References

Amy Edmondson, The Fearless Organization

Amy Edmondson, Teaming

Global Followership Conference

Connect with Kinsey Hansen
Angelo State University

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Otto Henfling brings a distinctive lead–follow lens to the board–CEO relationship, helping boards govern well and CEOs both lead decisively and follow faithfully in service of mission. He is a consultant and governance advisor in Australia with more than 20 years’ experience in the for-purpose sector, including 15 years as a CEO. He also has over 20 years of board experience, including a substantial period as Chair. He works extensively with boards and CEOs on governance, role clarity, risk, and strategic alignment. Otto is currently completing a PhD exploring trust and followership in human services organisations, examining how leaders and followers sustain common purpose in complex environments.

Episode References

Christian Monö, Why We Follow

S2 E21: Natural Followership - Chris Monö

S4 E4: Collaborationship is our Superpower - Chris Monö

Joseph Rost, Leadership for the Twenty-First Century

Global Followership Conferences

www.globalfollowership.com

Connect with Otto Henfling

Trusted Leadership Consulting: trustedleadership.com.au

Linked In: www.linkedin.com/in/ottohenfling/

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Connect with your host Sharna Fabiano
https://www.sharnafabiano.com

Order the book: Lead & Follow
https://www.amazon.com/Lead-Follow-Dance-Inspired-Teamwork/dp/1646632796/

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This is a bonus episode of The Tango Waits For You, a 3-part audio documentary series that tells the story of the first year of building a brand-new tango community in Long Beach, California. It’s both my story, of losing a dream and finding it again, and it’s also a story of dozens of people coming together by chance in a way that feels like it was truly meant to be. It’s a story full of friendship, connection, trust, and discovery, all the things we seek together on the dance floor. Being together in person is so important right now. Whether you dance tango or not, I hope you enjoy these episodes.

Episode 4: Night of Spirits - LB Tango hosts its first ritual milonga for the greater LA tango community, in celebration of Dia de los Muertos.

Episode References

“Tar Liom Siar,” written and performed by Moya Brennan, Lynne Earls, and Cormac de Barra. Produced and recorded by Lynne Earls, from the album Timeless.

Long Beach Tango
https://www.sharnafabiano.com/tango

Altar Milonga (Photos by Andrei Andreev)
https://www.sharnafabiano.com/altar-milonga

Elena's Elixirs
https://elenaselixirs.com/

Altar Society Brewing & Coffee Co.
https://altarsocietybrewco.com/

Mike Cokley, Altar Society General Manager
gm@altarbrands.com

Wisdom of the past (by Elena's Elixers)
Ilegal Joven Mezcal • Largo Bay Coquito Liqueur • Cacao Liqueur • Fresh Lime Juice • Ancho Reyes Chile Liqueur • Egg White • Aztec Cacao Bitters

Garnished with fresh nutmeg and floating marigold

From the high deserts of Oaxaca to the sun-warmed shores of the Caribbean, this cocktail traces an invisible thread through the Americas—where every region honors those who came before. In Mexico, marigolds (cempasúchitl) carpet the paths for Día de los Muertos. Guatemala flies giant barriletes for Día de Todos Los Santos. Bolivia shapes bread into guaguas de pan for Día de Todos los Difuntos. Peru, Ecuador, El Salvador—each has its own name, its own ritual, yet all share the same November vigil.

This drink brings together ingredients with no obvious reason to meet, yet they dance in surprising harmony.

Un Abrazo Final (by Elena's Elixers)
Tequila Reposado • Malbec • Fresh Lime Juice • Grenadine • Araceli Marigold Liqueur • Fernet-Branca

Sea salt rim, finished with a spritz of rose and marigold for fragrance

On Día de los Muertos, the veil between worlds grows thin. The living and the dead draw close—not in sorrow, but in celebration, in one final dance of remembrance. This cocktail honors that tender moment when memory becomes presence, when those we've lost feel near enough to touch.

Salt crystallizes like tears along the rim. Fernet-Branca whispers bitter truths of departure. Grenadine holds the sweetness of stolen moments, while Malbec bleeds with the complexity of love and loss. Tequila and marigold become golden offerings, guiding

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Connect with your host Sharna Fabiano
https://www.sharnafabiano.com

Order the book: Lead & Follow
https://www.amazon.com/Lead-Follow-Dance-Inspired-Teamwork/dp/1646632796/

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This is a reverse interview with my coaching colleague and former teacher Amy Lombardo, originally recorded for Amy’s podcast, Human Not Hacked.

Through the lens of dance, art, and embodied practice, this conversation challenges one of our culture’s most persistent illusions: that power means control, and that growth requires constant self-improvement. In this soulful conversation, Sharna and Amy unpack what happens when we stop trying to master ourselves and instead learn to move with life, not against it.

Together, they explore how the anti-self-help philosophy—the heart of Human Not Hacked—intersects with Sharna’s groundbreaking work on leadership and followership. From the dance floor to the boardroom, they talk about what it means to lead with presence, to follow with awareness, and to allow space for the unexpected. They also dive into how control shows up somatically: in the body, in relationships, and in the subtle ways we tighten around our desire to “get it right.”

Sharna shares her lived experience of unlearning the toxic self-help conditioning that tells us we must be endlessly optimized, productive, and emotionally contained. She speaks candidly about the courage it takes to unhook from those narratives, to honor our imperfections, and to build a new relationship with power—one rooted in responsiveness, humility, and connection.

Sharna also reflects on her experience in the Brilliance Coaching Academy, discussing how the training helped her shed the “shoulds” of performance-based leadership and reconnect to her authentic voice as a coach and teacher.

About Amy

Amy Lombardo is the founder of the Brilliance Coaching Academy and author of the award-winning book Brilliance. With more than 25 years of experience as a coach, leadership mentor, and yoga teacher, Amy weaves together somatic practices, deep listening, and inclusive leadership tools to guide people into authentic transformation. Her work is rooted in the belief that each of us has an inner brilliance waiting to be expressed—and that when we nurture it, we change not only our own lives but the world around us.

Amy Lombardo
https://amylombardo.com/

Brilliance Coaching Academy
https://coach-brilliance.com/

Human, Not Hacked: The Anti-Self Help Podcast
https://www.iheart.com/podcast/269-human-not-hacked-the-anti-297892497/

Support the show

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Connect with your host Sharna Fabiano
https://www.sharnafabiano.com

Order the book: Lead & Follow
https://www.amazon.com/Lead-Follow-Dance-Inspired-Teamwork/dp/1646632796/

Support the Show!
https://www.buzzsprout.com/1735834/support

Send Fan Mail by Text!

The Tango Waits For You is a 3-part documentary series that tells the story of the first year of building a brand-new tango community in Long Beach, California. It’s both my story, of losing a dream and finding it again, and it’s also a story of dozens of people coming together by chance in a way that feels like it was truly meant to be. It’s a story full of friendship, connection, trust, and discovery, all the things we seek together on the dance floor. Being together in person is so important right now. Whether you dance tango or not, I hope you enjoy these episodes.

Episode 3: Community - We start teaching two simultaneous classes, add a monthly práctica, and the group dynamic takes on a life of its own.

Episode References

Altar Milonga: Night of Spirits - Monday, Nov. 3
https://www.sharnafabiano.com/tango

Tango Resources & LB Tango Schedule
https://www.sharnafabiano.com/tango

Altar Society Brewing & Coffee Co.
https://altarsocietybrewco.com/

Mike Cokley, Altar Society General Manager
gm@altarbrands.com

Support the show

*
Connect with your host Sharna Fabiano
https://www.sharnafabiano.com

Order the book: Lead & Follow
https://www.amazon.com/Lead-Follow-Dance-Inspired-Teamwork/dp/1646632796/

Support the Show!
https://www.buzzsprout.com/1735834/support

Send Fan Mail by Text!

The Tango Waits For You is a 3-part documentary series that tells the story of the first year of building a brand-new tango community in Long Beach, California. It’s both my story, of losing a dream and finding it again, and it’s also a story of dozens of people coming together by chance in a way that feels like it was truly meant to be. It’s a story full of friendship, connection, trust, and discovery, all the things we seek together on the dance floor. Being together in person is so important right now. Whether you dance tango or not, I hope you enjoy these episodes.

Episode 2: Altar Society - Partnership with a local venue provides an opportunity for Long Beach Tango to expand and grow.

Episode References

Tango Resources & LB Tango Schedule
https://www.sharnafabiano.com/tango

Altar Society Brewing & Coffee Co.
https://altarsocietybrewco.com/

Mike Cokley, Altar Society General Manager
gm@altarbrands.com

Support the show

*
Connect with your host Sharna Fabiano
https://www.sharnafabiano.com

Order the book: Lead & Follow
https://www.amazon.com/Lead-Follow-Dance-Inspired-Teamwork/dp/1646632796/

Support the Show!
https://www.buzzsprout.com/1735834/support

Send Fan Mail by Text!

The Tango Waits For You is a 3-part documentary series that tells the story of the first year of building a brand-new tango community in Long Beach, California. It’s both my story, of losing a dream and finding it again, and it’s also a story of dozens of people coming together by chance in a way that feels like it was truly meant to be. It’s a story full of friendship, connection, trust, and discovery, all the things we seek together on the dance floor. Being together in person is so important right now. Whether you dance tango or not, I hope you enjoy these episodes.

Episode 1: The Dream - After being retired from tango for seven years, Sharna meets four locals at a coffee meetup who want to learn to dance.

Episode References

Tango Resources & LB Tango Schedule
https://www.sharnafabiano.com/tango

Altar Society Brewing & Coffee Co.
https://altarsocietybrewco.com/

Mike Cokley, Altar Society General Manager
gm@altarbrands.com

Support the show

*
Connect with your host Sharna Fabiano
https://www.sharnafabiano.com

Order the book: Lead & Follow
https://www.amazon.com/Lead-Follow-Dance-Inspired-Teamwork/dp/1646632796/

Support the Show!
https://www.buzzsprout.com/1735834/support

Send Fan Mail by Text!

In this episode, Sharna shares her own history and experience with tango as a social dance form. It’s a reverse interview with Actor and Director Dan Istrate, who has been a guest on the show twice before. They talk together about Sharna's discovery and rediscovery of tango, and about what makes tango so compelling for so many people.

• “There’s a weight within this dance, within this concept, that speaks for itself.”
• "Tango comes like a revelation in one’s life and you just know it."
• "There was some kind of way that this particular form was changing me on all levels and that’s what made it feel so necessary and inevitable."
• "You bring yourself to it and it's scary in a way but then it's so beautiful when you really connect."

More with Dan Istrate

S3 E3: Connected Social Conversations – Dan Istrate
https://leadfollow.buzzsprout.com/1735834/episodes/14781194-connected-social-conversations-dan-istrate

S1 E15: Lead/Follow Relationships in Live Theater Performance - Dan Istrate
https://leadfollow.buzzsprout.com/1735834/episodes/9621693-lead-follow-relationships-in-live-theater-performance-dan-istrate

Connect with Dan Istrate
www.danistrate.com

Support the show

*
Connect with your host Sharna Fabiano
https://www.sharnafabiano.com

Order the book: Lead & Follow
https://www.amazon.com/Lead-Follow-Dance-Inspired-Teamwork/dp/1646632796/

Support the Show!
https://www.buzzsprout.com/1735834/support