In a working world where the conversation is increasingly dominated by AI, we need to consciously prioritise human connection and old-school practices, like face-to-face conversations, physical books, and time for deep thinking, to avoid becoming trapped in a cycle of constant acceleration that ultimately undermines our wellbeing and what makes us fundamentally human.

Jon Whittle is the former CEO of CSIRO's Data61, Australia's national AI research and development centre. He led a team of around 500 scientists, engineers and support staff across Australia. Jon’s working is transitioning to helping organisations understand and adopt AI in an effective, human-centred way, particularly with boards and leadership teams.

Three reasons to listen

• To reframe AI adoption around human needs rather than pure efficiency
• To discover the risks of outsourcing human connection to AI
• Ao learn how to adopt old-school practices that preserve your humanity

Episode highlights

• [00:10:24] Leading hundreds of scientists and engineers
• [00:13:14] What it means to be human in an AI world
• [00:23:25] The danger of sharing problems with AI rather than other humans
• [00:31:33] What Jon has learned from classical Indian dance
• [00:36:18] AI for Business
• [00:39:55] Jon's media recommendation
• [00:42:06] Takeaways from Pia and Dan

Links

• Connect with Jon via LinkedIn
• AI for Business – Jon’s book
• CSIRO presents: Everyday AI – Jon’s podcast
• Turning Down the Noise – Jon’s media recommendation
• Track and improve your team performance with Squadify
• Leave us a voice note

Leading through uncertainty means accepting complexity rather than fighting it. The most powerful tool for doing so is clarity.

While conventional wisdom suggests focusing on trust-building and communication skills, Squadify data shows that starting with clarity – specifically around shared goals, processes, and measures of success – is what actually transforms groups of individuals into cohesive teams and drives performance.

Three reasons to listen

• Learn to befriend uncertainty and focus on what you can influence
• Discover how to build team cohesion through clarity rather than trust exercises
• Understand how teams work together as the key performance driver

Episode highlights

• [00:02:31] Jamie's question
• [00:03:36] Befriending uncertainty
• [00:05:38] Are you a team, or a TINO?
• [00:08:51] The sixth dysfunction in teams
• [00:11:12] The trigger question for high performance
• [00:13:42] Doubling down on humanity
• [00:16:41] Coming up in 2026

Links

• Track and improve your team performance with Squadify
• Leave us a voice note

Autonomy in teams requires clarity, not chaos. Successful autonomous teams need defined authority over coordination, transparent processes, and intentional facilitation to empower people whilst maintaining alignment and effectiveness.

Jon Barnes is a facilitator, coach, and co-founder of Pala, and he focuses on helping teams and organisations become more autonomous. His approach spans a spectrum from making hierarchies feel less hierarchical, to helping teams operate fundamentally without line management.

Three reasons to listen

• Create clarity in team structures by defining authority and decision-making processes upfront
• Build psychological safety and engagement through effective facilitation techniques
• Balance empowerment with appropriate holding by learning when to let go and when to provide direction

Episode highlights

• [00:12:22] the two types of waste in teams
• [00:18:10] What does leadership look like away from hierarchy?
• [00:21:44] Self-management in highly-pressurised teams
• [00:25:37] The myth of self-governance
• [00:27:12] Unhelpful self-management patterns
• [00:32:47] Jon's biggest two levers
• [00:35:32] Jon's media recommendation
• [00:36:59] Dan's media recommendation
• [00:41:12] Takeaways from Pia and Dan

Links

• Connect with Jon via LinkedIn
• Humankind, by Rutger Bregman
• Lonesome Dove, by Larry McMurtry – Jon’s media recommendation
• The Ministry of Time, by Kaliane Bradley – Dan’s media recommendation
• From the Core, by John Wineland – Pia’s media recommendation
• Track and improve your team performance with Squadify
• Leave us a voice note

There's a scientific basis for understanding optimal team size, including research on connection complexity, social loafing, and performance data that challenges common assumptions about how many people should work together effectively.

In this Q&A episode, Dan and Pia dive into the science and the data, to discover the optimum team size.

Episode highlights

• [00:01:27] Is it OK to have a big team?
• [00:04:15] The Ringelmann effect
• [00:07:22] What's the optimum team size?
• [00:08:18] When is a team a group?
• [00:10:20] What the Squadify data shows

Links

• Ringelmann effect
• Track and improve your team performance with Squadify
• Leave us a voice note

While AI will dramatically reshape work and careers – potentially displacing entry-level jobs and creating “companies of one” – the true competitive advantage will lie in taking a human-centric approach to AI adoption, where diverse teams maintain creativity, critical thinking and genuine human connection rather than simply automating away people to maximise shareholder returns.

Larry Chao is the founding Chief Strategy and Operations Officer at trustme.ai, a startup building tools for AI governance. He’s also involved with nonprofits like Berkeley Skydeck and the Ethical AI Governance Group, where he helps empower the next generation of innovators to develop AI responsibly.

Sunaina Lobo has been a Chief Human Resources Officer three times over, and is now a strategic advisor to trustme.aiand co-founder of Momentum Global HR, where she does strategic HR consulting with an AI lens.

Three reasons to listen

• Understand the trajectory and implications of AI evolution, and what this means for teams and workflows
• Navigate the human impact of AI adoption in your organisation
• Move beyond AI as a differentiator to focus on human connection and diverse thought as the true sources of organisational strength

Episode highlights

• [00:12:47] The evolution of AI
• [00:16:55] AI and teams
• [00:17:37] Facts emerging from our continued use of AI
• [00:29:01] The case for responsible AI
• [00:32:15] The case against the "company of one"
• [00:41:50] Driving shareholder value while being human-centred
• [00:43:43] Suni's media recommendation
• [00:44:05] Larry's media recommendation
• [00:45:12] Takeaways from Pia and Dan

Links

• Connect with Larry via LinkedIn
• Connect with Sunaina via LinkedIn
• TrustMe.ai
• Suni’s podcast recommendations:
  • Pioneers of AI
  • The AII Daily Brief
• KPop Demon Hunters – Larry’s recommendation
• Humankind, by Rutger Bregman
• Track and improve your team performance with Squadify
• Leave us a voice note

Successful team performance requires slowing down to achieve alignment before rushing into action. Spending more time upfront ensuring everyone truly understands the problem statement, decision-making roles, and priorities will save significant time, energy, and relationship breakdowns later.

Without this foundational alignment, teams waste enormous amounts of time in ineffective meetings, experience constant breakdowns in execution, and carry baggage from unresolved issues that poisons future decisions. The key is to move with discipline and sophistication rather than mere speed, investing in both the technical frameworks and the relational intelligence needed to bring out the best thinking from diverse perspectives.

Susan Asiyanbi is the founder and CEO of the Olori Network, an executive leadership practice that works with CEOs, executive teams, and boards, specialising in studying what the strongest executive teams and boards do differently.

Three reasons to listen

• Identify the hidden costs of misalignment in your team, from wasted meeting time to breakdowns in relationships that drain energy both at work and at home
• Apply a disciplined approach to decision-making that balances speed with rigour through five key strands
• Reclaim control of your calendar by conducting a time audit that reveals the gap between what you say matters and where you actually spend your energy

Episode highlights

• [00:09:18] Alignment, themes, and relationships
• [00:11:06] How to get alignment
• [00:12:32] What happens when alignment isn't found
• [00:15:48] Asking the right questions
• [00:17:32] Decision-making is compromised
• [00:18:40] The five key components of a decision-making framework
• [00:26:17] How to move more slowly
• [00:28:41] How will AI affect decision-making?
• [00:31:44] What are you prioritising for?
• [00:37:23] What to try this
• [00:39:57] Susan's media recommendation
• [00:40:43] Takeaways from Pia and Dan

Links

• Connect with Susan via LinkedIn
• Team #1, by Patrick Lencioni
• AI-Generated “Workslop” Is Destroying Productivity
• How to turn a group of strangers into a team – Susan’s media recommendation
• Track and improve your team performance with Squadify
• Leave us a voice note

Rather than trying to "fix" people or show them rungs on a ladder, social mobility comes from recognising individuals, giving them psychological safety, and allowing them to fulfil their own potential.

Diverse workplaces thrive not because of tokenistic inclusion efforts, but because different voices at the table lead to better outcomes and more successful organisations.

Dan and Pia are joined by Arad Reisberg, Associate Pro Vice-Chancellor at Brunel University of London, campaigner for social justice and social mobility, and co-founder of the Social Mobility Leaders Forum.

Three reasons to listen

• Reframe your understanding of social mobility as social justice, focusing on creating opportunities for people to fulfil their potential rather than just climbing career ladders
• Create an environment where people feel comfortable being their authentic selves by asking powerful questions and actively listening
• Build more diverse, successful teams by recognising that different voices at the table lead to better outcomes, challenging conventional thinking about "hiring for fit"

Episode highlights

• [00:09:32] What is social mobility?
• [00:15:24] How social mobility helps business
• [00:18:59] How to implement social mobility in your organisation
• [00:26:31] Arad's media recommendation
• [00:29:43] Takeaways from Dan and Pia

Links

• Connect with Arad via LinkedIn
• Arad’s media recommendations: the Inward trilogy by Yung Pueblo:
  1. Inward
  2. Clarity & Connection
  3. The Way Forward
• Track and improve your team performance with Squadify
• Leave us a voice note

Restaurant franchises can be powerful environments for leadership development, especially for young people. When managed with intentionality, these seemingly entry-level jobs can provide significant opportunities for personal growth, skill development, and career advancement.

Melissa Nuttall, along with her partner, is the franchisee of a quick service restaurant in New Zealand. In this conversation with Pia and Dan, she lays out how good customer service and continuous training create positive work cycles that benefit both employees and customers.

Three reasons to listen

• Achieve broader business goals while reducing cognitive load on staff
• Develop young team members into capable leaders through progressive responsibility
• Create safe spaces for growth regardless of employees’ long-term career plans

Episode highlights

• [00:08:38] Helping the next generation of leaders
• [00:14:21] Turning a culture around
• [00:18:23] Creating a stable launchpad for new careers
• [00:24:38] Leading with kindness and humility
• [00:27:58] Be mindful of your leadership shadow
• [00:29:20] Mel's media recommendation
• [00:30:11] Takeaways from Pia and Dan

Links

• Connect with Melissa via LinkedIn
• Track and improve your team performance with Squadify
• Leave us a voice note