Key takeaways

• DTE hasn’t knocked doors in about two years. Leads come from brokered relationships with insurance agents, tree companies, real estate agents, home inspectors and handymen.
• Anyone who is inside customers’ homes is a potential partner.
• Cold emails to agents ask for a lunch meeting and aren’t a pitch for preferred-roofer status. Donovan’s estimate is that 100 emails get roughly 20 takers.
• Pitching agents: you make their customers happier and make them look better. Donovan says DTE has never compensated agents for referrals.
• State Farm agents are DTE’s biggest referral source. Offering to review stalled, difficult claims is the quickest way in.
• After a roof sale, ask for the customer’s insurance agent and hand-deliver paperwork for any shingle-class premium discount.
• New reps shadow agent meetings instead of learning door knocking.
• DTE’s evidence package, paired with lump-sum pricing, gets approved about 60% of the time up front.
• When a carrier “requests” something, ask whether it’s a request or a requirement.
• Donovan’s expected ramp-up for the agent model is about a month to see consistent leads.
• Ken’s view: the better you get at retail, the better you get at claims.

Mentioned in the episode

• Chris Zimmerman and John (board of advisors and mentors)
• Exactimate, Roofle-style instant quote tools, Eagle View, SRS and ABC
• State Farm and Allstate
• GAF and the Power Roofing model
• Fair Labor Standards Act and 1099 considerations (Donovan notes he isn’t an attorney)

Find the guest: DTE Roofing (https://www.dteroofingllc.com/), Facebook DTE Roofing, Donovan Davis and Mitchell Davis on Facebook.

Note: the transcript spells Roofle as “ruffle” in places, so double-check the product name before publishing.

roofing podcast, Kitchen Table podcast, Ken Baden, Donovan Davis, DTE Roofing, roofing sales, insurance restoration, roofing insurance claims, evidence package, Exactimate alternative, roofing referrals, State Farm agents, insurance agent referrals, stop door knocking, roofing lead generation, roofing business growth, retail roofing, instant quote roofing, Roofle, roofing supplements, Diversified Roofer, Potomac Custom Remodeling, Columbus Ohio roofer, roof claim approval

• 00:00:18 – Intro and welcome to Donovan Davis of DTE Roofing
• 00:00:55 – Chris Zimmerman as mentor, and the evidence package’s impact on approvals
• 00:01:57 – Ohio market, retail vs. insurance mix, and the Columbus storm
• 00:02:53 – How Donovan and his brother got into roofing
• 00:03:57 – The low barrier to entry and why it hurts the industry
• 00:05:00 – Hiring lessons and a rep filing claims on his own
• 00:06:36 – Pop-up storms, running a clean business, and the 1099/FLSA lesson
• 00:08:59 – Contractor licensing in Ohio and Pennsylvania
• 00:10:40 – Treating insurance work like retail and moving off Exactimate
• 00:11:40 – Lump-sum pricing and instant quote tools
• 00:14:30 – Retail options and good-better-best packages
• 00:15:50 – GAF/Power Roofing model and ventilation
• 00:17:15 – Referrals and finding the “dance partner” in a neighborhood
• 00:19:00 – Professional referral partnerships and the cold email to agents
• 00:21:29 – State Farm agents as the biggest referral source
• 00:22:50 – Building the agent network and post-roof insurance paperwork
• 00:25:30 – No door knocking: training new reps on agent meetings
• 00:28:30 – State Farm focus and selling agents on making them look better
• 00:29:30 – Frivolous claims and honest inspections
• 00:31:45 – Ramp-up timeline and winning agents with stalled claims
• 00:33:00 – No compensation to agents, and keeping the model clean
• 00:33:37 – Exactimate writers and supplementing in-house
• 00:34:40 – The two-step evidence package
• 00:35:45 – Request vs. requirement, and the Allstate call story
• 00:38:15 – Reasonable pricing and local price verification
• 00:40:00 – Wrap-up: ages, three years in business, and community
• 00:41:35 – Exit strategy and EBITDA mindset
• 00:42:25 – Retail vs. insurance focus and plans for spring
• 00:43:55 – Where to find Donovan and DTE Roofing
• 00:44:50 – Chris’s plane, Diversified Roofer and closing

• Rick's unconventional path: engineering degree → corporate tech job → sales → laid off in the dot-com bust
• The origin story: selling Space Invaders T-shirts at Portobello Market in Notting Hill
• Building an international business licensing Disney, Warner Bros., Netflix, Star Wars, and Marvel IP
• The difference between corporate licensing (Disney/Netflix) and relationship-driven music licensing
• What "merchandising" actually covers: apparel, accessories, headwear, nightwear, and more
• Evergreen licenses (Disney) vs. fleeting pop-culture moments (Stranger Things) vs. touring bands
• Why merchandising is a high-volume, lower-margin business — "license to print money"
• Rick's biggest music license ever: AC/DC, and why the Rolling Stones' logo is untouchable
• Writing The Maverick Entrepreneur: turning life lessons and failures into a book
• The role of tenacity, resilience, and refusing to quit in entrepreneurship
• Rick's motivation for public speaking and pursuing personal development
• Working smarter, not harder
• Rick's closing piece of wisdom: "grab life by the throat" and take full personal responsibility
• Trusting your instincts and learning from (not repeating) your mistakes
• Where to find Rick Lowe and his upcoming book

Guest: Jake Huotari, Co-Owner, Aspire Home Services (Maple Grove, MN)
Host: Ken Baden, CEO/Owner of Baden Consulting and Potomac Custom Remodeling

Key takeaways

• Flexibility and a good attitude are core to Jake's leadership philosophy: "Blessed are the flexible, for they will not be bent out of shape."
• Jake and Josh started at Aspire as a small insurance restoration team. After the 90-day program with Ken, they ended 2025 just under $4M.
• Jake says retail runs about a 60% margin after commissions, and that insurance claims can move from about 45% to 75% margin using financing and upgrade tie-downs.
• Retail is a value-based proposition. Your ability to articulate value determines your ability to charge a premium.
• Retail businesses are worth roughly 4 to 5 points more to private equity and investors, according to Ken.
• Starting retail doesn't take a huge budget. Begin with one or two canvassers and add as profit allows.
• Hiring with a personality and temperament profile takes the mystery out of finding reps who will actually close.
• Jake says that when his team deviated from the scripting in July, their close rate dropped from 34% to 18%. It recovered as soon as they went back to it.
• Aspire's team now includes 7 sales reps, 8 canvassers, 2 phone staff, a job site coordinator, and a production specialist, which Jake says is a framework for a $15M business.
• Jake sees insurance carriers squeezing contractors through slow pay and scope disputes. He says fewer than half of last year's roughly 4,000 Minnesota contractors remain.
• About 3 in 10 roof replacements are insurance-driven and 7 in 10 are for other reasons, according to Ken. Very few roofers go after that 70%.
• Jake's advice on what made it work: follow directions, and put in the work.
• Jake's caution: "This is not get rich quick, this is get rich slow."

Mentioned in the episode: Blue Collar Baller event (Dallas, 2023), one-sit close, canvassing, DISC-style hiring profile, CRM and cost-per-lead tracking, financing on insurance claims, private equity interest, NLP-based scripting.

Connect with Jake: https://www.facebook.com/jakehuotari
Connect with Ken: thekitchentablepodcast.net | Badenconsulting.net | DiversifiedRoofer.com | PotomacCustomRemodeling.com

• Menace Monroe joins the show for the third time, discussing his life, music, and business ventures.
• He details his history in and out of incarceration starting at age 14, including a recent 6-year prison term.
• Discusses how a drug habit drove much of his past legal trouble, and how he's been sober and focused since coming home.
• Explains why he sees the music industry as "a business" — artists need consistency and traction before labels will invest.
• Talks through his growth strategy: he calls it "multiplication" — steadily increasing followers, streams, and income rather than expecting overnight success.
• Shares the emotional story of losing custody of his younger son during his last incarceration due to an interstate custody case, and how that experience continues to affect him.
• Credits family — including his brother, who was incarcerated alongside him — as a major source of motivation and change.
• Talks about his current single "Still My Boo," dedicated to women who've been mistreated in relationships.
• Discusses his long-term goal of eventually creating music with a positive message, citing Bob Marley as inspiration.
• Explains the origin of his clothing brand Trap Rob, which began as sketches in a notebook while incarcerated and has since grown into a full merch line (shirts, hats, bags, car accessories, and more) — now trademarked.
• Gives a shoutout to his brother's brand, Black Heart Garments, known for tactical, concealment-friendly sweatsuits.
• Wraps up with where to find his music and merchandise, and future goals: 1 million followers and 10x growth within a year.

• Peter Roth returns for his second appearance on The Kitchen Table Podcast, this time bringing detailed numbers and frameworks.
• Scalify specializes exclusively in human-driven outbound cold calling (AI cold calling is illegal) for booking home service estimates — no inbound, no lead reselling as a primary offering.
• Scalify builds fully-managed, client-owned call centers: the client owns everything, pays agents directly, and can cancel the management contract month-to-month.
• The "funnel" framework: bottom-of-funnel leads (people actively shopping) are few and expensive to fight over; top-of-funnel prospects (not yet problem-aware) are a much larger, less-contested pool — which is where cold calling and canvassing ("digital door knocking") come in.
• About two-thirds of Scalify's clients are insurance restoration roofers, one-third retail.
• Private equity buyers favor companies with proprietary lead generation because it reduces "de-risking" concerns tied to weather-dependent insurance work.
• Standard agent ratios: roughly 3 call center agents per 1 closer (assuming an empty calendar); similar to the 2-3:1 canvasser-to-closer ratio in door knocking.
• Cold callers speak to ~250 people/day with a sub-1% booking rate (1-2 appointments/day); door knockers speak to ~8-10 homeowners/day with higher lead quality but far lower volume.
• Average show rate on cold-call-booked appointments is around 40%.
• Typical roofing cost-per-acquisition via traditional marketing is ~$25 (on a great day); Scalify's clients typically see cost-per-acquisition around $900-1,000 — but with a call center, one deal's profit usually pays for the entire build-out (~$8-10K to build, ~$8-9K/month to run).
• Real client case study: a door-knocking-only operator spending $25K/month saw 1.5x ROI; switching to a call center model produced 6x ROI.
• The "secret sauce" of a call center isn't the agents, script, or dialer — it's the management team (a 4-person management team is often needed to run just 3 agents).
• Hiring "green" (untrained) reps and training them from scratch tends to outperform hiring "seasoned" reps with bad inbound-lead habits, because outbound sales requires creating urgency the prospect didn't have before the call.
• Case study: Victor Rencore, a well-known HVAC operator with 17 companies, deliberately avoids "replacement call" leads (price-shopping, bottom-of-funnel) in favor of top-of-funnel outbound leads.
• Power Home Remodeling's business model is built almost entirely on canvassing, allowing them to charge premium prices because their leads aren't price-shopping.
• Live transfers explained: the cold-calling agent does all the qualifying and rapport-building, then transfers the live call to a rotating pool of sales reps' cell phones (random or ring-all), rewarding "speed to lead."
• Live transfers can increase appointment volume by 25-60% because agents get back on the phone faster, and pre-built rapport improves show rates and close rates.
• Scalify stays a specialist in outbound cold calling only — Peter refers clients elsewhere for inbound, live transfer add-ons from other sources, canvassing, and SEO rather than trying to do it all.

• Why Ken loves doing solo episodes — using the platform for pure value, no guest filter
• The "lean and mean" strategy that worked great... until it didn't
• The complacency factor: why sales reps unconsciously coast once they hit a comfortable income
• The fix: going all-in on recruiting, scaling from 5-7 reps to 15-20 across two offices
• Why team leads need to be physically in the field with new reps, not managing from afar
• Ken's decision to personally handle Day 1 onboarding and training for every new hire
• The "zone of genius" concept (credit to his coach Brandon) and why some things can't be delegated
• The math behind the growth goal: 15 reps per office, 4 contracts/week at $20K = $1.2M/week
• Two biggest lessons of the year: never forget the complacency factor, and live in your zone of genius
• Insurance restoration sales: why too many reps avoid confrontation and big-ticket conversations
• Setting proper expectations with homeowners at every step (ACV checks, timelines, next steps)
• Who's actually responsible for what: the insurance carrier's job vs. the contractor's job
• Why avoiding potential problems creates bigger problems down the line
• Office revamp, personal branding, and the morning mantra that's shifted team energy
• What's coming up next: guests including a musician/entrepreneur and Ken's recruiting team

• Nancy's background: raised by parents with limited means, inspired by a family friend who was a CPA
• Left a traditional accounting career path after realizing she disliked tax, audit, and corporate work
• Became a stay-at-home mom while helping her husband start businesses — five failed along the way
• Hit rock bottom at 45: divorced, four kids, $100/week child support, $650,000 in debt
• Bought a tax prep firm that fell through the day after signing a 3-year office lease
• Built her firm by marketing to people with public federal tax liens during the recession
• Learned those clients weren't ideal long-term and repositioned toward recurring revenue (monthly tax/CFO services)
• Founded Success Your Way to teach entrepreneurial mindset and business basics to newer founders
• Discusses LLC vs. S-corp election and why a sole-member LLC is often the right starting entity
• The "set your new zero" lesson from a friend that reshaped her relationship with cash reserves
• Wrote Tame Your Money Monster (releasing January 20th) as a result of her own financial mismanagement
• Candid discussion on lifestyle inflation, especially in insurance restoration roofing/solar businesses
• Tax strategy talk: why spending to "save on taxes" often costs more than it saves
• Real estate as a legitimate long-term tax strategy — but only after building a real income base
• Closing advice: "Manage your money well — that is what leads to peace in your life"
• Ken plugs Baden Consulting's retail roofing consultation for storm/insurance restoration roofers

Episode Notes

• Shane got his start in construction in 2013 doing gutter cleaning and repairs before moving into general contracting, flooring, and eventually car sales.
• He launched his own business about 8-9 years ago and later transitioned fully into roofing roughly five years ago.
• A standout early sale: a homeowner with 50-60 solar panels closed in under three minutes for a $12K job.
• Shane and Ken discuss learning from sales trainers (referencing Adam and the "SLAP" sales framework vs. Ken's "3 W's").
• Recruiting struggles this summer left both companies short-staffed heading into peak storm season.
• Storm activity has been unusually high this year in the DMV compared to the last several years.
• Two unusual insurance claim situations: carriers asking for pre-purchase home inspections before releasing funds, and a homeowner discovering a $23,000 deductible that left him covering 52% of an ~$80K roof.
• Discussion on where premiums, deductibles, and claim requirements might be heading next year.
• Why aggressive, professional closers consistently outperform sloppy canvassing teams — and why sending canvassers into a competitive area can backfire.
• Zeus Contracting is expanding into Delaware, Pennsylvania, and Virginia, with plans to grow paid advertising (Google/Facebook) heading into winter.
• Zeus Contracting posted a record month: 55 signed deals worth over $900,000.

⏱️ Timestamps

• 00:00 – Intro & catching up with Shane Michael
• 01:09 – Shane's start in construction (2013): gutters, repairs & general contracting
• 02:30 – Transitioning into sales, including a stint in car sales
• 04:45 – Starting his own business ~8-9 years ago
• 05:25 – Going full-time into roofing & the fast solar panel sale
• 06:33 – Sales training, mentors, and the "SLAP" vs. "3 W's" methods
• 08:04 – Recruiting struggles and rebuilding the sales team
• 10:39 – This year's storm activity and market response
• 12:15 – Odd insurance claim: pre-purchase inspection required for payout
• 13:37 – Digging into how that requirement can even be legal
• 14:35 – Deductible shock: 48% out-of-pocket on an $80K+ roof
• 15:31 – Where deductibles and policies are headed next year
• 20:15 – Finding opportunity in a "down" market
• 22:08 – Why the industry is thinning out — and why that's a good thing
• 22:27 – Canvassers vs. closers: professionalism and close rates
• 25:39 – Company culture, integrity, and core values
• 25:53 – What's next for Zeus Contracting
• 26:26 – Expansion plans into Delaware, PA & Virginia
• 26:46 – Record month: 55 deals, $900K+ in signed work
• 27:32 – Where to find Shane Michael & Zeus Contracting online