A betrayed business partner. Five years of anger and sleepless nights. A vow of forgiveness that the mind made but the body refused to keep. That was Hindra Gunawan's life before he found Tension and Trauma Releasing Exercises (TRE®) — and a seven-minute phone call afterward showed him something had changed at a level no amount of willpower had reached.

In this episode, Alex sits down with Hindra Gunawan — Indonesia's first TRE provider and now its certification trainer — to trace that arc: from physics teacher to tuition-center entrepreneur; from the betrayal that stole his sleep to the training room in Singapore where sixty people tremored and he didn't; from paying for radio spots he couldn't yet explain to reaching more than 40,000 Indonesians; and from a single vow in Phoenix, Arizona — "TRE must be learned by all Indonesian people" — to celebrating his team's 1,000th workshop with Dr. David Berceli. Along the way: leading Neurogenic Tremoring safely with 600 soldiers at a time, the Shaka Foundation's work with teachers, police, and disaster survivors, the durian farm he planted to fund it all, and the 3 a.m. phone commitment every Indonesian provider makes to their alumni.

Hindra Gunawan is a TRE® certification trainer and provider based in Jakarta, Indonesia. A former physics teacher and education entrepreneur, he became Indonesia's first TRE provider in 2013 and has since built one of the most active TRE communities in the world — over 1,000 workshops delivered and more than 40,000 people reached. He leads TRE Indonesia and co-founded the Shaka Foundation with Dr. David Berceli, a not-for-profit bringing TRE to teachers, police, military personnel, and communities affected by natural disasters across Indonesia.

⏱ KEY HIGHLIGHTS

0:00 Welcome & introductions — a decade of inspiration

5:57 The physics teacher whose students wouldn't let him go

7:38 Building a tuition-center business — five branches and a franchise

9:46 The betrayal that brought five years of anger and sleepless nights

10:48 "I said I forgive them — but when I heard their voice, the anger came back"

12:19 Sixty people tremoring in Singapore — and Hindra didn't

13:19 The second training: anger rising from stomach to throat

15:01 The seven-minute phone call that changed everything

16:00 Phoenix, 2013 — "TRE must be learned by all Indonesian people"

20:20 Radio ads he couldn't explain — and 40,000 people later

22:50 The Shaka Foundation: disasters, guardians, and teachers

27:39 A durian farm with a mission

31:05 "Almost every day I get a testimonial" — what Hindra is most proud of

33:40 Why people stop — the wound-washing analogy and lifelong free gatherings

36:46 Leading Neurogenic Tremoring safely with groups of 600

43:57 The 3 a.m. commitment every Indonesian provider makes

49:23 An earthquake, a traumatized boy, and what the tremors made possible

52:31 Tremor stigma in Indonesian culture — "this is very natural"

57:11 "TRE is a gift" — one world, one family

🔗 RESOURCES & LINKS

Connect with Hindra Gunawan — TRE® certification trainer in Jakarta, Indonesia, leader of TRE Indonesia and co-founder of the Shaka Foundation. https://www.treindonesia.com/

Also mentioned: Dr. David Berceli (creator of TRE®, co-founder of the Shaka Foundation), Chris Balsley (Hindra's first TRE teacher), TRE Indonesia, and the Shaka Foundation. (Full links in the internal notes below.)

🔗 Join our live weekly classes → https://neurogenic-integration.com/webshop/#classes 🎓 Explore our Online TRE® Certification → https://neurogenic-integration.com/webshop/#cert

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Most people meet Neurogenic Tremoring through trauma work. This conversation asks a different question: what if kids learned it first — as a built-in resilience skill, before the world ever tells them something is wrong?

In this episode, Alex sits down with three women working at the frontier of that idea — Vera Live, Špela Potočnik, and Katja Jarc — to trace how Neurogenic Tremoring is being reframed for youth: why nervous system regulation has been “kept behind the clinical wall”; how Vera co-developed the book Dynamic Superpower: Inner Strength for Kids & Teens with TRE® creator Dr. David Berceli; and how Špela and Katja piloted a school curriculum in Slovenia where five to seven minutes of guided tremoring, twice a week, began changing how teenage students slept, focused, and felt in their own bodies. Along the way: the science stations that teach kids about the vagus nerve and interoception, why a safe relationship matters more than a perfect protocol, and how the body becomes a friend rather than a problem to fix.

Vera Live co-founded Dynamic Superpower with Dr. David Berceli to bring the body’s natural tremoring reflex to kids and teens as a proactive resilience tool, not a clinical intervention. A PE teacher, yoga trainer, and certified TRE® provider, she works to equip the adults in children’s lives to pass on nervous system training safely. Find the work at https://www.reflexomobility.org

Špela Potočnik is a Slovenian youth counselor, social pedagogue, and school counselor with nearly 20 years in schools, a certified TRE® provider, and one of two pilot developers behind the Slovenia study. She collaborates with the Intigrum Institute and advocates for burnout prevention in schools.

Katja Jarc is a primary school teacher, marriage and family therapist, gestalt counselor, arts therapies specialist, and certified TRE® provider — the second Slovenia pilot developer. Through her practice, Manus Katja Jarc, she has integrated body-oriented and dance-movement work for over 13 years, and co-led the 2024 “TRE with Kids” training in Amsterdam with Vera.

⏱ KEY HIGHLIGHTS

• 0:00 Welcome & introductions
• 6:04 The problem: regulation “kept behind the clinical wall”
• 6:42 Giving youth agency: “the body is really your best friend”
• 8:28 How the name “dynamic superpower” came to be
• 10:07 Špela on test anxiety, panic attacks, and the missing body piece
• 14:23 Adapting tremoring for kids — toys, play, and safety
• 15:52 The book as a manual, not just a story
• 20:20 Science stations: three brains, the vagus nerve, interoception
• 22:17 A 10-year-old reads it cold — and tremors on their own
• 25:51 A mother, a doctor, and her daughter’s aha moment
• 28:53 Lifting the stigma: “this is your power”
• 33:53 Inside the Slovenia pilot: how it began
• 35:20 Five to seven minutes, twice a week
• 43:14 Špela’s surprise: how little tremoring is enough 4
• 5:10 The real key — a safe relationship
• 50:01 What’s next: educational programs & specialized guides
• 57:14 Closing reflections: “pay attention, become astonished”

🔗 RESOURCES & LINKS

Connect with the guests — Reflexive Mobility Academy (Vera Live): https://www.reflexomobility.org · Špela Potočnik: https://www.mojesledi.com · Katja Jarc: practice MANUS. The Slovenia pilot and the family’s TRE® videos with Dr. Berceli are linked in the internal notes below.

Also mentioned: Dr. David Berceli (creator of TRE®), Linnea Gillen, Dr. Lisa Glenk, the Intigrum Institute, and the International Baccalaureate framework.

Continue your journey with Neurogenic Integration 🔗 Join our live weekly classes → https://neurogenic-integration.com/webshop/#classes 🎓 Explore our Online TRE® Certification → https://neurogenic-integration.com/webshop/#cert

📍 FIND US ONLINE

Neurogenic Integration: https://neurogenic-integration.com/ Instagram: @neurogenicintegration

Most people come to tremoring looking for relief. Jared came looking for depth. By the time he found Tension and Trauma Releasing Exercises (TRE®), he'd spent nearly a decade inside ancient yoga, Daoist Qigong, and nondual meditation — and what he wasn't expecting was that a single video, found mid-session on the floor of his own room, would finally let all of it land in his body.

In this episode, Alex sits down with Jared to trace that arc: years of self-study in Qigong and Kriya; the night he searched "how to release trauma" and stumbled onto TRE; and the first three months when, in his words, "everything became felt in my body." Along the way they get into pausing inside a session, the integration that happens lying still afterward, lowering your baseline beneath the polyvagal curve, and the paradox at the heart of his path — nondual teachers say let go of the body, while tremoring keeps inviting him further in.

Jared is also leading a guest workshop for the Neurogenic Integration community on Thursday, October 22, 2026 — a chance to experience what brings tremoring alive for him, firsthand.

Jared Dahmer is a TRE® provider certified through Red Beard's TRE certification pathway, based in Louisiana, USA. Before TRE, he spent six to seven years in deep self-study of Daoist Qigong — in the lineage of Jonathan White, Michael Winn, and Mantak Chia — alongside ancient yoga, Kriya, and nondual meditation. He teaches both TRE and Qigong and offers one-on-one sessions, exploring tremoring not only as a way to release stress and trauma, but as a catalyst for embodiment and awakening.

⏱ KEY HIGHLIGHTS

0:00 Welcome & introductions

2:00 Starting Qigong in 2020: the search for deeper connection

4:00 An experience at twenty that changed everything

6:00 What is Qigong? "The art of subtle breath"

8:00 Kriya, Kundalini & feeling "turned on by life from within"

10:00 Defining "deep": the body as temple

15:00 Searching "how to release trauma" — and finding TRE

16:00 "Tickled from within": laughter, tears, and arriving at safety

17:00 The morning after: long-term TRE and getting hooked

20:00 The first three months: "everything became felt in my body"

22:00 "I feel myself": dropping the character

25:00 Pausing inside a session: the weightlifting analogy

27:00 Integration: how lying still teaches the body to meditate

29:00 Beneath the polyvagal curve: lowering your baseline

36:00 Teaching others: intimacy, relationships & feeling safe

40:00 "Medicine for the nervous system"

44:00 Where tremoring meets nondual meditation

50:00 Closing reflections: "I just want the world to feel safer"

🔗 RESOURCES & LINKS

Connect with Jared Dahmer — TRE® provider & Qigong teacher, Louisiana, USA, currently offering one-on-one sessions. Linktree: https://linktr.ee/jaredjoyyy

Also mentioned: David Berceli (creator of TRE®), Jonathan White, Michael Winn, Mantak Chia, Mika Devos, Tree Wiseblood, Christina Guillaume, Ramana Maharshi, and the book The Direct Means to Eternal Bliss. (Full links in the internal notes below.)

Continue your journey with Neurogenic Integration

🔗 Join our live weekly classes → https://neurogenic-integration.com/webshop/#classes

🎓 Explore our Online TRE® Certification → https://neurogenic-integration.com/webshop/#cert

📍 FIND US ONLINE

Neurogenic Integration: https://neurogenic-integration.com/ Instagram: @neurogenicintegration