Guest: Lauren McMillan, PhD, RPA – Cultural Resource Manager, Virginia State Parks Lauren.McMillan@dcr.virginia.gov
Host: Donald Forgione donald.forgione@gmail.com

In this episode of Tailgate Talks, Donald Forgione sits down with Lauren McMillan, the Cultural Resource Manager from Virginia State Parks, to talk about what cultural resources really are—and why they matter far beyond compliance, checklists, or old buildings.

This conversation explores the humanity behind cultural resources: the people, stories, and lived experiences embedded in landscapes, structures, and artifacts across our parks. Lauren shares her journey from academia into state parks, how teaching shapes her work today, and why helping staff understand the why behind cultural resource protection changes everything—from decision-making to visitor experience.

This episode is a thoughtful reminder that parks don't just protect land—they protect stories.

• What cultural resources actually include (and common misconceptions)

• Moving from compliance-driven preservation to meaningful connection

• The role of cultural resource managers in everyday park decisions

• Balancing preservation, safety, and public use

• Why physical places help us connect to the humanity of the past

• How understanding cultural resources strengthens park staff and visitor experience

• Cultural resources aren't just "old things"—they are evidence of real people

• Why interpretation and preservation go hand in hand

• How cultural resource awareness empowers non-specialist park staff

• The danger of treating preservation as a checklist instead of a responsibility

• Protecting stories, not just structures

• Park, recreation, and public land professionals

• Interpreters, rangers, maintenance staff, and managers

• Leaders making decisions that affect historic and cultural sites

• Anyone who believes parks are about people as much as places

When we understand the stories embedded in our parks, we don't just protect resources—we honor the people who came before us and enrich the experience of those who come after.

Guest: Brent Leisure, Director of Texas State Parks (ret)

Ethics in state parks is rarely about clear-cut right and wrong. More often, leaders find themselves navigating gray areas—where policies, public expectations, resource protection, staff morale, and political realities collide.

In this episode of Tailgate Talks, Donald sits down with Brent Leisure for a thoughtful, practical conversation about ethical leadership in state parks. Together, they explore how ethics shows up in everyday decisions—far beyond policy manuals and audit reports—and why culture, consistency, and courage matter more than titles.

This episode speaks directly to park professionals who are balancing limited resources, public trust, internal pressures, and stewardship responsibilities. Whether you're a new supervisor or a seasoned leader, this conversation offers tools to help you lead with integrity when the path forward isn't obvious.

• The difference between ethics and morals in leadership

• Why most ethical challenges live in the gray area, not black and white

• How small compromises can quietly shape organizational culture

• The role of consistency and fairness in building trust with staff

• Why "this is how we've always done it" can be a warning sign

• Navigating ethical decisions under pressure from politics, public opinion, and limited resources

• How leaders can model ethical behavior—even when it's uncomfortable

• Practical ways to prepare yourself and your team for ethical decision-making before problems arise

• Ethical leadership is less about rules and more about daily choices

• Culture is shaped by what leaders tolerate, not just what they say

• Transparency and accountability protect both the organization and the leader

• When leaders do the right thing early, they avoid much harder decisions later

• Park Rangers and frontline staff

• Supervisors, managers, and administrators

• Emerging leaders preparing for greater responsibility

• Anyone serving in public lands, conservation, or recreation

🎧 Listen now wherever you get your podcasts
If this episode resonates, please share it with a colleague, mentor, or emerging leader—and keep the conversation going around the tailgate.

In today's episode, Donald sits on the tailgate with Kevin Korenthal, Executive Director of the National Association of Park Foundations, to explore how park professionals and their supporting foundations can work together more effectively, more confidently, and with clearer expectations.

Kevin brings decades of nonprofit leadership and association experience to NAPF, and he shares practical guidance on building stronger relationships between park agencies and the foundations that support them.

We discuss:

• What Park Foundations Actually Do
  Beyond fundraising — their role in advocacy, community engagement, volunteerism, and long-term resource development.

• Why Some Partnerships Thrive (and Why Others Struggle)
  Kevin explains common pitfalls between parks and foundations and how communication, clarity, and expectations can make or break the relationship.

• How Park Professionals Can Better Support Their Foundations
  Simple actions staff can take that dramatically increase trust and effectiveness.

• Board Development & Governance Tips
  Recruiting the right volunteers, setting expectations, and avoiding the "warm body on a board" trap.

• How to Communicate Needs Without Making "The Big Ask" Every Time
  Tools and practices for creating open, ongoing dialogue.

• What Foundations Wish Park Managers Understood
  Kevin offers honest, actionable insights that managers can implement right away.

• Training, Mentorship, and the Importance of a Shared Mission
  How park professionals can build a stronger culture of stewardship around their foundation.

Kevin Korenthal, CAE, is the Executive Director of the National Association of Park Foundations, an organization dedicated to strengthening parks through strong, ethical, and effective supporting foundations. He brings deep expertise in nonprofit management, board development, leadership training, and fostering healthy partnerships between agencies and their philanthropic arms. Learn more at www.the-napf.org.

Park Foundations are powerful multipliers — but only when the park and the foundation operate as partners, not separate planets. This episode equips park professionals with the understanding and tools they need to:

• Build trust

• Improve communication

• Engage board members

• Strengthen fundraising capacity

• Create a positive, lasting partnership

If you work with a Friends group, foundation, or nonprofit partner — this conversation is essential listening.

• Website: www.the-napf.org

• Email: execdir@the-napf.org

In this heartfelt and eye-opening episode, Donald sits down with Veronica Greear, Area 6 Manager for Tennessee State Parks, to talk about something every park professional needs to understand — creating programs and experiences that truly welcome visitors with disabilities.

Veronica brings a rare and powerful dual perspective:
She's a seasoned park ranger, interpreter, manager, and leader… and she's the mother of a daughter with Down Syndrome.

Together, we explore:

• What Down Syndrome actually is — and what it isn't

• Why many park programs unintentionally exclude people with disabilities

• How simple changes can make programs more welcoming and comfortable

• What "people-first" programming looks like in real park settings

• The emotional side of being a parent and a park professional

• How staff training, visitor communication, and program design can evolve

• Practical ideas you can implement immediately in your park

• The importance of patience, empathy, and flexibility in visitor service

• What park leaders should be thinking about as they develop future programs

Veronica also shares:

• Her journey through a 20-year park career

• The day she literally went into labor at a state park

• Lessons her daughter has taught her that apply to visitor engagement

• What she wishes every ranger, interpreter, and supervisor understood

This conversation isn't about paperwork, ADA compliance, or checking a box.
It's about seeing people, building trust, and making our parks better for every visitor who walks through our gates.

Whether you manage programs, lead staff, or interact with visitors daily, this episode will change how you think about accessibility and inclusion.

Veronica.Greear@tn.gov

Donald@tailgate-talks.com

In this thought-provoking episode, Donald welcomes back his good friend and frequent guest, Phil Gaines, former Director of South Carolina State Parks and a trusted voice in the world of leadership and legacy. Phil has been on the show several times before, and each time he brings fresh wisdom, humor, and practical insights. This conversation is no different—it's a deep dive into what it means to build, live, and leave a legacy.

Legacy is a big word, but it's not something we get to write for ourselves. As Phil reminds us, history decides your legacy. It's defined by the choices you make, the people you impact, and the influence you carry into the lives of others. More than a title or an accomplishment, legacy is your story in action—it's the way others remember how you made them feel and the lessons you passed along.

Donald and Phil explore the idea that just like nature, our lives and careers are constantly changing. Change isn't something to fear—it's a natural and necessary part of growth. They challenge listeners to become lifelong learners who are willing to adapt, pivot, and even reinvent themselves when needed. Whether it's reading a book, listening to a podcast, or learning from a colleague, every new lesson is an opportunity to "upgrade" who we are and how we lead.

The conversation also touches on flexibility and resilience—two qualities that great leaders share. Just as ecosystems thrive by adapting to shifting conditions, so do leaders who remain open, curious, and humble. By consistently tweaking and refining our approach, we not only grow ourselves but also leave a stronger impact on those around us.

Phil and Donald's back-and-forth is both inspiring and practical, filled with personal stories and take-home reminders. They remind us that legacy isn't about perfection or permanence—it's about progress, influence, and the willingness to keep learning and improving.

• Defining Legacy: Why it's less about what you claim and more about how others experience your leadership.

• The Power of Lifelong Learning: How curiosity fuels personal and professional growth.

• Reinvention & Adaptability: Practical insights on pivoting, upgrading, and remaining relevant in changing times.

• Influence Over Achievement: Why the lives you touch will always speak louder than the awards you win.

• Nature as a Teacher: Lessons from the natural world that mirror our own need for change and resilience.

Whether you're leading a team, serving your community, or simply navigating your own journey, this episode will encourage you to look at your legacy not as a final destination but as an ongoing process. Legacy is written every day—in how you show up, how you learn, how you adapt, and how you lift others along the way.

Phil and Donald leave listeners with this challenge: Keep learning, keep growing, and keep shaping a legacy that others will be proud to remember.

Every year, tens of thousands of visitors gather to witness one of the most dramatic wildlife events in America: the Buffalo Roundup. In this episode of Tailgate Talks, we go behind the scenes to uncover what it takes to move hundreds of bison safely and efficiently across the sweeping prairies of Custer State Park.

From managing the herd's health to coordinating horses, riders, and vehicles, the Buffalo Roundup is a blend of tradition, conservation, and sheer logistical muscle. You'll hear how rangers, wranglers, and park professionals prepare for the spectacle, the history behind this unique event, and the lessons it offers in leadership, teamwork, and balancing people with wildlife.

• The history and purpose of the Buffalo Roundup.

• How park professionals manage logistics, safety, and crowd control for tens of thousands of visitors.

• The role of conservation in maintaining healthy bison herds.

• Leadership and teamwork lessons hidden in the thunder of hooves.

• What it feels like to ride alongside a 2,000-pound animal at full speed.

The Buffalo Roundup is more than a show—it's a living example of conservation in action, cultural heritage, and the careful balance between people and nature. Whether you're a park professional, a wildlife enthusiast, or just curious about one of America's most unique traditions, this episode gives you a rare look inside the roundup.

🎧 Tune in to experience the thundering hooves, the dust of the prairie, and the teamwork it takes to herd thunder.

Aaron Rodgers
Visitor Services Program Manager
Custer State Park, South Dakota
📧 aaron.rodgers@state.sd.us

donald@tailgate-talks.com

Donald Forgione — Former Director of 175 Florida State Parks, with 40+ years in ecotourism, leadership, and public service. Now a business owner, speaker, and coach, Donald connects leadership lessons from nature to business. Mike Simmons — Founder of Find My Catalyst, leadership coach, and sales strategist, helping people identify and act on their catalyst for change.

Three Key Quotes

1. Donald Forgione: "Trust is the key to absolutely everything… If they're not feeling what I'm saying, I might as well throw it out the window."

2. Mike Simmons: "A revenue challenge is often a culture challenge in disguise. Culture starts with leadership. Leadership starts with self."

3. Donald Forgione: "Superman ain't coming. You have to be your own Superman, your own Wonder Woman — and figure it out."

Mike and Donald explore the deep connections between nature and leadership, revealing how adaptability, trust, and asking the right questions can transform teams and culture. They share real-world lessons from state parks to sales, showing leaders how to align purpose, overcome obstacles, and create environments where people thrive.

5 Key Takeaways – Finding Your Catalyst in Leadership 1. Adaptability is Essential

• Nature changes daily, sometimes hourly — so do business environments.

• Leaders must adjust "sails" when conditions shift, not fight the wind.

• Like a river finding a new path, flexibility keeps momentum moving forward.

2. Trust is the Foundation

• Without trust, communication falls flat — people must feel you're genuine.

• Consistent standards and fairness build credibility.

• Trust enables teams to follow direction, even in tough changes.

3. Ask Better Questions

• Leaders have an obligation to ask questions others won't.

• Tone, timing, and context matter — the "tailgate" setting often works best.

• Asking opens doors to insight; telling can shut them.

4. Sales is Everyone's Job

• Selling is solving problems, not pushing products.

• Every role in an organization impacts customer experience.

• Internal and external "customers" both require thoughtful service.

5. Break Down Silos

• Customers don't care which department "owns" the problem.

• Internal collaboration is as important as external service.

• Remove political barriers so the mission comes first.

Find your Catalyst at https://findmycatalyst.com

Check out Tailgate Talks at https://tailgate-talks.com/speaker-experience/podcasts/

You Can Put the Work in to Practice, and we'd love to hear about it.

Listener Challenge: Your Catalyst Connection

This week, take 15 minutes to connect one lesson from nature to your work.

Step 1 – Observe: Go for a walk in a park, your neighborhood, or any outdoor space. Notice one thing that stands out — a tree's growth pattern, the way water flows, how animals interact, or even the weather.

Step 2 – Reflect: Ask yourself:

• What obstacle is this natural element facing?

• How is it adapting or overcoming?

• How does this mirror challenges in my team or business?

Step 3 – Act: Identify one small change you can make in your leadership or work this week inspired by that observation.

Example: If you see water rerouting around rocks, consider how you can redirect your team's energy around a roadblock rather than trying to push through it.

Share Your Story: Email Mike and Donald with your insight — you might inspire the next podcast conversation.