Episodi

  • Your Best Meeting Ever with Rebecca Hinds, PhD

    Your Best Meeting Ever with Rebecca Hinds, PhD
    Feb 18 2026
    In this episode, I'm joined by Rebecca Hinds — organizational behavior expert and founder of the Work AI Institute at Glean — for a practical conversation about why meetings deteriorate over time and how to redesign them. Rebecca argues that bad meetings aren't a people problem — they're a systems problem. Without intentional design, meetings default to ego, status signaling, conflict avoidance, and performative participation. Over time, low-value meetings become normalized instead of fixed. Drawing on her research at Stanford University and her leadership of the Work Innovation Lab at Asana, she shares frameworks from her new book, Your Best Meeting Ever, including: The four legitimate purposes of a meeting: decide, discuss, debate, or develop The CEO test for when synchronous time is truly required How to codify shared meeting standards Why leaders must explicitly give permission to leave low-value meetings We also explore leadership, motivation, and the myth that kindness and high standards are opposites. Rebecca explains why effective leaders diagnose what drives each individual — encouragement for some, direct challenge for others — and design environments that support both performance and belonging. Finally, we talk about AI and the future of work. Tools amplify existing culture: strong systems improve, broken systems break faster. Organizations that redesign how work happens — not just what tools they use — will have the advantage. If you want to run better meetings, lead with more clarity, and rethink how collaboration actually happens, this episode is for you. You can find Your Best Meeting Ever at major bookstores and learn more at rebeccahinds.com. 00:00 Start 00:27 Why Meetings Get Worse Over Time Robin references Good Omens and the character Crowley, who designs the M25 freeway to intentionally create frustration and misery. They use this metaphor to illustrate how systems can be designed in ways that amplify dysfunction, whether intentionally or accidentally. The idea is that once dysfunctional systems become normalized, people stop questioning them. They also discuss Cory Doctorow's concept of enshittification, where platforms and systems gradually decline as organizational priorities override user experience. Rebecca connects this pattern directly to meetings, arguing that without intentional design, meetings default to chaos and energy drain. Over time, poorly designed meetings become accepted as inevitable rather than treated as solvable design problems. Rebecca references the Simple Sabotage Field Manual created by the Office of Strategic Services during World War II. The manual advised citizens in occupied territories on how to subtly undermine organizations from within. Many of the suggested tactics involved meetings, including encouraging long speeches, focusing on irrelevant details, and sending decisions to unnecessary committees. The irony is that these sabotage techniques closely resemble common behaviors in modern corporate meetings. Rebecca argues that if meetings were designed from scratch today, without legacy habits and inherited norms, they would likely look radically different. She explains that meetings persist in their dysfunctional form because they amplify deeply human tendencies like ego, status signaling, and conflict avoidance. Rebecca traces her interest in teamwork back to her experience as a competitive swimmer in Toronto. Although swimming appears to be an individual sport, she explains that success is heavily dependent on team structure and shared preparation. Being recruited to swim at Stanford exposed her to an elite, team-first environment that reshaped how she thought about performance. She became fascinated by how a group can become greater than the sum of its parts when the right cultural conditions are present. This experience sparked her long-term curiosity about why organizations struggle to replicate the kind of cohesion often seen in sports. At Stanford, Coach Lee Mauer emphasized that emotional wellbeing and performance were deeply connected. The team included world record holders and Olympians, and the performance standards were extremely high. Despite the intensity, the culture prioritized connection and belonging. Rituals like informal story time around the hot tub helped teammates build relationships beyond performance metrics. Rebecca internalized the lesson that elite performance and strong culture are not opposing forces. She saw firsthand that intensity and warmth can coexist, and that psychological safety can actually reinforce high standards rather than weaken them. Later in her career at Asana, Rebecca encountered the company value of rejecting false trade-offs. This reinforced a lesson she had first learned in swimming, which is that many perceived either-or tensions are not actually unavoidable. She argues that organizations often assume they must choose between performance ...
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    4 ore e 1 min
  • Corporating: Navigating Career and Life with Mandy Mooney

    Corporating: Navigating Career and Life with Mandy Mooney
    Feb 11 2026
    In this episode, I'm joined by Mandy Mooney — author, corporate communicator, and performer — for a wide-ranging conversation about mentorship, career growth, and how to show up authentically in both work and life. We talk about her path from performing arts to corporate communications, and how those early experiences shaped the way she approaches relationships, leadership, and personal authenticity. That foundation carries through to her current role as VP of Internal Communications, where she focuses on building connections and fostering resilience across teams. We explore the three pillars of career success Mandy highlights in her book Corporating: Three Ways to Win at Work — relationships, reputation, and resilience — and how they guide her approach to scaling mentorship and helping others grow. Mandy shares practical strategies for balancing professional responsibilities with personal passions, and why embracing technology thoughtfully can enhance, not replace, human connection. The conversation also touches on parenting, building independence in children, and the lessons she's learned about optimism, preparation, and persistence — both in the workplace and at home. If you're interested in scaling mentorship, developing your career with intention, or navigating work with authenticity, this episode is for you. And if you want to hear more on these topics, catch Mandy speaking at Snafu Conference 2026 on March 5th. 00:00 Start 02:26 Teaching Self-Belief and Independence Robin notes Mandy has young kids and a diverse career (performing arts → VP of a name-brand company → writing books). Robin asks: "What are the skills that you want your children to develop, to stay resilient in the world and the world of work that they're gonna grow up in?" Emphasis on meta-skills. Mandy's response: Core skills She loves the question, didn't expect it, finds it a "thrilling ride." Observes Robin tends to "put things out there before they exist" (e.g., talking about having children before actually having them). Skill 1: Envisioning possibilities "Envision the end, believe that it will happen and it is much more likely to happen." Teaching children to see limitless possibilities if they believe in them. Skill 2: Independence Examples: brushing their own hair, putting on clothes, asking strangers questions. One daughter in Girl Scouts: learning sales skills by approaching strangers to sell cookies. Independence builds confidence and problem-solving abilities for small and big life challenges. Skill 3: Self-belief / Self-worth Tied to independence. Helps children navigate life and career successfully. Robin asks about teaching self-belief Context: Mandy's kids are 6 and 9 years old (two girls). Mandy's approach to teaching self-belief Combination of: Words Mandy uses when speaking to them. Words encouraged for the children to use about themselves. Example of shifting praise from appearance to effort/creativity: Instead of "You look so pretty today" → "Wow, I love the creativity that you put into your outfit." Reason: "The voice that I use, the words that I choose, they're gonna receive that and internalize it." Corrective, supportive language when children doubt themselves: Example: Child says, "I'm so stupid, I can't figure out this math problem." Mandy responds: "Oh wow. That's something that we can figure out together. And the good news is I know that you are so smart and that you can figure this out, so let's work together to figure it out." Asking reflective questions to understand their inner thoughts: Example: "What's it like to be you? What's it like to be inside your head?" Child's response: "Well, you worry a lot," which Mandy found telling and insightful. Emphasizes coming from a place of curiosity to check in on a child's self-worth and self-identity journey. 04:30 Professional Journey and Role of VP of Internal Comms Robin sets up the question about professional development Notes Mandy has mentored lots of people. Wants to understand: Mandy's role as VP of Internal Communications (what that means). How she supports others professionally. How her own professional growth has been supported. Context: Robin just finished a workshop for professionals on selling themselves, asking for promotions, and stepping forward in their careers. Emphasizes that she doesn't consider herself an expert but learns from conversations with experienced people like Mandy. Mandy explains her role and path Career path has been "a winding road." Did not study internal communications; discovered it later. Finds her job fun, though sometimes stressful: "I often think I might have the most fun job in the world. I mean, it, it can be stressful and it can't, you know, there are days where you wanna bang your head against the wall, but by and large, I love my job. It is so fun." Internal communications responsibility: Translate company strategy ...
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    2 ore e 47 min
  • Why the Best Leaders are Better Storytellers with Robin P. Zander

    Why the Best Leaders are Better Storytellers with Robin P. Zander
    Jan 21 2026
    Welcome back to Snafu with Robin P. Zander. In this episode, I'm doing something a little different: I step into the guest seat for a conversation with one of my good friends, Andrew Bartlow, recorded for the People Leader Accelerator podcast alongside Jessica Yuen. We dive into storytelling, identity, and leadership — exploring how personal experiences shape professional influence. The conversation begins with a reflection on family and culture, from the Moroccan textiles behind me, made by my mother, to the influence of my father's environmental consulting work. These threads of personal history frame my lifelong fascination with storytelling, persuasion, and coalition-building. Andrew and Jessica guide the discussion through how storytelling intersects with professional growth. We cover how early experiences — like watching Lawrence of Arabia at a birthday sleepover — sparked curiosity about adventure, influence, and human connection, and how these interests evolved into a career focused on organizational storytelling and leadership. We explore practical frameworks, including my four-part story model (Setup → Change → Turning → Resolution) and the power of "twists" to create momentum and memorability. The episode also touches on authentic messaging, the role of vulnerability in leadership, and why practicing storytelling in everyday life—outside high-stakes moments—builds confidence and executive presence over time. Listeners will hear lessons from a lifetime of diverse experiences: running a café in the Mission District, collaborating with BJ Fogg on behavioral change, building Zander Media, and applying storytelling to align teams and organizations. We also discuss how authenticity and personal perspective remain a competitive advantage in an age of AI-generated content. If you're curious about how storytelling, practice, and presence intersect with leadership, persuasion, and influence, this episode is for you. And for more insights on human connection, organizational alignment, and the future of work, check out Snafu, my weekly newsletter on sales, persuasion, and storytelling here, and Responsive Conference, where we explore leadership, work, and organizational design here. Start (0:00) Storytelling & Identity Robin introduces Moroccan textiles behind him Made by his mother, longtime practicing artist Connects to Moroccan fiancée → double meaning of personal and cultural Reflection on family influence Father: environmental consulting firm Mother: artist Robin sees himself between their careers Early Fascination with Storytelling Childhood obsession with Morocco and Lawrence of Arabia Watched 4-hour movie at age 6–7 Fascinated by adventure, camels, storytelling, persuasion Early exposure shaped appreciation for coalition-building and influence Identity & Names Jess shares preference for "Jess" → casual familiarity Robin shares professional identity as "Xander" Highlights fluidity between personal and professional selves Childhood Experiences & Social Context Watching Lawrence of Arabia at birthday sleepover Friends uninterested → early social friction Andrew parallels with daughters and screen preferences Childhood experiences influence perception and engagement Professional Background & Storytelling Application Robin's long involvement with PeopleTech and People Leader Accelerator Created PLA website, branding, documented events Mixed pursuits: dance, media, café entrepreneurship Demonstrates applying skills across domains Collaboration with BJ Fogg → behavioral change expertise Storytelling as Connection and Alignment Robin: Storytelling pulls from personal domains and makes it relevant to others Purpose: foster connection → move together in same direction Executive relevance: coalition building, generating momentum, making the case for alignment Andrew: HR focus on connection, relationships, alignment, clarity Helps organizations move faster, "grease the wheels" for collaboration Robin's Credibility and Experience in Storytelling Key principle: practice storytelling more than listening Full-time entrepreneur for 15 years First business at age 5: selling pumpkins Organized neighborhood kids in scarecrow costumes to help sell Earned $500 → early lessons in coalition building and persuasion Gymnastics and acrobatics: love of movement → performance, discipline Café entrepreneurship: Robin's Cafe in Mission District, SF Started with 3 weeks' notice to feed conference attendees Housed within a dance studio → intersection of dance and behavioral change First experience managing full-time employees Learned the importance of storytelling for community building and growth Realized post-sale missed opportunity: storytelling could have amplified success Transition to Professional Storytelling (Zander Media) Lessons from cafe → focus on storytelling, messaging, content creation Founded Zander Media (...
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    58 min
  • Investing In People, AI, and the Future of Work with Virginie Raphael

    Investing In People, AI, and the Future of Work with Virginie Raphael
    Jan 14 2026
    In this episode, I'm joined by Virginie Raphael — investor, entrepreneur, and philosopher of work — for a wide-ranging conversation about incentives, technology, and how we build systems that scale without losing their humanity. We talk about her background growing up around her family's flower business, and how those early experiences shaped the way she thinks about labor, value, and operating in the real economy. That foundation carries through to her work as an investor, where she brings an operator's lens to evaluating businesses and ideas. We explore how incentives quietly shape outcomes across industries, especially in healthcare. Virginie shares why telehealth was a meaningful shift and what needs to change to move beyond one-to-one, supply-constrained models of care. We also dig into AI, venture capital, and the mistakes founders commonly make today — from hiring sales teams too early to raising too much money too fast. Virginie offers candid advice on pitching investors, why thoughtful cold outreach still works, and how doing real research signals respect and fit. The conversation closes with a contrarian take on selling: why it's not a numbers game, how focus and pre-qualification drive better outcomes, and why knowing who not to target is just as valuable as finding the right people. If you're thinking about the future of work, building with intention, or navigating entrepreneurship in an AI-accelerated world, this episode is for you. And for more conversations like this, join us at Snafu Conference 2026 on March 5th, where we'll keep exploring incentives, human skills, and what it really takes to build things that last. Start (0:00) Reflections on Work, Geography, and AI Adoption Virginie shares what she's noticing as trends in work and tech adoption: Geographic focus: she's excited to explore AI adoption outside traditional tech hubs. Examples: Atlanta, Nashville, Durham, Utah, Colorado, Georgia, North Carolina, parts of the Midwest. Rationale: businesses in these regions may adopt AI faster due to budgets, urgency, and impatience for tech that doesn't perform. "There are big corporates, there are middle and small businesses in those geos that have budget that will need the tech… and/or have less patience, I should say, for over-hub technologies that don't work." She notes that transitions to transformational technology never happen overnight, which creates opportunities: "We always underestimate how much time a transition to making anything that's so transformational… truly ubiquitous… just tends to think that it will happen overnight and it never does." Robin adds context from her own experience with Robin's Cafe and San Francisco's Mission District: Observed cultural and business momentum tied to geography Mentions Hollywood decline and rise of alternative media hubs (Atlanta, Morocco, New Jersey) Virginie reflects on COVID's impact on workforce behaviors: Opened a "window" to new modes of work and accelerated change: "There were many preexisting trends… but I do think that COVID gave a bit of a window into what was possible." Emphasis on structural change: workforce shifts require multi-year perspective and infrastructure, not just trends. Investor, Mission, and Capital Philosophy Virginie clarifies she is an investor, not a venture capitalist, resisting labels and prestige metrics. "I don't call myself a venture capitalist… I just say investor." Focuses on outcomes over categories, investing in solutions that advance the world she wants to see rather than chasing trendy tech sectors. "The outcome we want to see is everyone having the mode of work that suits them best throughout their lives." Portfolio themes: Access: helping people discover jobs they wouldn't otherwise know about. Retention / support: preventing workforce dropouts, providing appropriate healthcare, childcare, and caregiving support. "Anyone anywhere building towards that vision is investible by us." Critiques traditional venture capital practices: Raising VC money is not inherently a sign of success. "Raising from a VC is just not a sign of success. It's a milestone, not the goal." Concerned about concentration of capital into a few funds, leaving many founders unsupported. "There's a sense… that the work we do commands a lot less power in the world, a lot less effectiveness than holding the capital to hire that labor." Emphasizes structural, mission-driven investing over chasing categories: Invests in companies that prevent workforce dropouts, expand opportunity, and create equitable access to meaningful work. Portfolio strategy is diversified, focusing on infrastructure and long-term impact rather than quick wins. "We've tracked over time what type of founders and what type of solutions we attract and it's exactly the type of deal that we want to see." Reflects on COVID and societal trends as a lens for her investment thesis: "COVID gave a bit of a ...
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    53 min
  • The Human Side of Selling with Jeff Jaworski

    The Human Side of Selling with Jeff Jaworski
    Jan 7 2026
    Welcome back to Snafu with Robin Zander. In this episode, I'm joined by Jeff Jaworsky, who shares his journey from a global role at Google to running his own business while prioritizing time with his children. We talk about the pivotal life and career decisions that shaped this transition, focusing on the importance of setting boundaries—both personally and professionally. Jeff shares insights on leaving a structured corporate world for entrepreneurship and the lessons learned along the way. We also explore the evolving landscape of sales and entrepreneurship, highlighting how integrating human connection and coaching skills is more important than ever in a tech-driven world. The conversation touches on the role of AI and technology, emphasizing how they can support—but not replace—essential human relationships. Jeff offers practical advice for coaches and salespeople on leveraging their natural skills and hints at a potential future book exploring the intersection of leadership, coaching, and sales. If you're curious about what's next for thoughtful leadership, entrepreneurship, and balancing work with life, this episode is for you. And for more conversations like this, get your tickets for Snafu Conference 2026 on March 5th here, where we'll continue exploring human connection, business, and the evolving role of AI. Start (0:00) Early life and first real boundary Jeff grew up up in a structured, linear environment Decisions largely made for you Clear expectations, predictable paths Post–high school as the first inflection point College chosen because it's "what you're supposed to do" Dream: ESPN sports anchor (explicit role model: Stuart Scott) Reality check through research Job placement rate: ~3% First moment of asking: Is this the best use of my time? Is this fair to the people investing in me (parents)? Boundary lesson #1 Letting go of a dream doesn't mean failure Boundaries can be about honesty, not limitation Choosing logic over fantasy can unlock unexpected paths Dropping out of college → accidental entry into sales Working frontline sales at Best Buy while in school Selling computers, service plans, handling customers daily Decision to leave college opens capacity Manager notices and offers leadership opportunity Takes on home office department Largest sales category in the store Youngest supervisor in the company (globally) at 19 Early leadership challenges Managing people much older Navigating credibility, age bias, exclusion Learning influence without authority Boundary insight Temporary decisions can become formative Saying "yes" doesn't mean you're locked in forever Second boundary: success without sustainability Rapid growth at Best Buy Promotions Increasing responsibility Observing manager life up close 60-hour weeks No real breaks Lunch from vending machines Internal checkpoint Is this the life I want long-term? Distinguishing: Liking the work Disliking the cost Boundary lesson #2 You can love a craft and still reject the lifestyle around it Boundaries protect the future version of you Returning to school with intention Decision to go back to college This time with clarity Sales and marketing degree by design, not default Accelerated path Graduates in three years Clear goal: catch up, not start over Internship at J. Walter Thompson Entry into agency world Launch of long-term sales and marketing career Pattern recognition: how boundaries actually work Ongoing self-check at every stage Have I learned what I came here to learn? Am I still growing? Is this experience still stretching me? Boundaries as timing, not rejection Experiences "run their course" Leaving doesn't invalidate what came before Non-linear growth Sometimes stepping down is strategic Demotion → education Senior role → frontline role (later at Google) Downward moves that enable a bigger climb later Shared reflection with Robin Sales as a foundational skill Comparable to: Surfing (handling forces bigger than you) Early exposure to asking, pitching, rejection Best Buy reframed Customer service under pressure Handling frustrated, misinformed, emotional people Humility + persuasion + resilience Parallel experiences Robin selling a restaurant after learning everything she could Knowing the next step (expansion) and choosing not to take it Walking away without knowing what's next Core philosophy: learning vs. maintaining "If I'm not learning, I'm dying" Builder mindset, not maintainer Growth as a non-negotiable Career decisions guided by curiosity, not status Titles are temporary Skills compound Ladders vs. experience stacks Rejecting the myth of linear progression Valuing breadth, depth, and contrast The bridge metaphor Advice for people stuck between "not this" and "not sure what next" Don't leap blindly Build a bridge Bridge components Low-risk experiments Skill development ...
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    59 min
  • The Science of Human Performance with Melissa Painter

    The Science of Human Performance with Melissa Painter
    Nov 20 2025

    Welcome back to Snafu with Robin Zander.

    In this episode, I'm joined by Melissa Painter, founder of Breakthru – a platform bringing movement, mindfulness, and behavior change into workplaces around the world.

    We talk about how Melissa uses movement as a tool to improve focus, resilience, and well-being, and how her background in dance and creative movement informs her approach to human performance. We explore the science and art of helping people move more, think better, and feel more connected to their work and each other.

    Melissa shares how she designs short, immersive experiences for employees, what it takes to change workplace culture, and why small, intentional shifts in movement can unlock big changes in thinking and performance.

    We also dive into the intersection of creativity, neuroscience, and technology, and how thoughtful, human-centered design can make work feel more alive and meaningful.

    If you're curious about how movement, mindfulness, and behavior change can transform your work and life, this episode is for you. And for more conversations like this, stay tuned for Responsive Conference 2026, where we'll be continuing the dialogue on human connection, creativity, and thriving in the modern workplace.

    I'm so glad and honored to have Melissa joining us in this talk. If you're interested in her work, take a look at Breakthru – you can try it and share it with your team here: Take your first Breakthru! https://breakthru.me/

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    47 min
  • How to Build What You Believe with Shannon Deep and Kevan Lee

    How to Build What You Believe with Shannon Deep and Kevan Lee
    Nov 8 2025
    Welcome back to Snafu with Robin Zander. In this episode, I'm joined by Kevan Lee and Shannon Deep, co-founders of Bonfire – a creative studio reimagining what it means to build brands, tell stories, and live meaningful lives. We talk about how Bonfire began as a "Trojan horse" – a branding agency on the surface, but really a vehicle for deeper questions: What does fulfilling work look like? How do we find meaning beyond our careers? And how can business become a space for honesty, connection, and growth? Kevan and Shannon share how their partnership formed, what it takes to build trust as co-founders, and how vulnerability and self-awareness fuel their collaboration. We explore their path from tech and theater to building Bonfire, hosting creative retreats, and helping founders tell more authentic stories. We also dive into how AI is changing storytelling, the myth of "broetry" on LinkedIn, and why transparency is the future of marketing. If you're curious about what's next for creativity, leadership, and meaningful work, this episode is for you. And for more conversations like this, stay tuned for Responsive Conference 2026, where we'll be continuing the dialogue on human connection, business, and the evolving role of AI. Start (0:00) How Bonfire Started (14:25) Robin notes how transparent and intentional they've been building their business and community Says Bonfire feels like a 21st-century agency – creative, human, and not traditional Invites them to describe what they're building and their vision for it Kevan's response: Admits he feels imposter syndrome around being called an "entrepreneur" Laughs that it's technically true but still feels strange Describes Bonfire as partly a traditional branding agency They work with early-stage startups Help with brand strategy, positioning, messaging, and differentiation. But says the heart of their work is much deeper "We create spaces for people to explore what a fulfilling life looks like – one that includes work, but isn't defined by it." Their own careers inspired this – jobs that paid well but felt empty, or jobs that felt good but didn't pay the bills Bonfire became their way to build something more meaningful A space to have these conversations themselves And to invite others into it This includes community, retreats, and nontraditional formats Jokes that the agency side is a Trojan horse – a vehicle to fund the work they truly care about Shannon adds: They're agnostic about what Bonfire "does" Could be a branding agency, publishing house, even an ice cream shop "Money is just gas in the engine." The larger goal is creating spaces for people to explore their relationship to work Especially for those in transition, searching for meaning, or redefining success Robin reflects on their unusual path Notes most marketers who start agencies chase awards and fame But Shannon and Kevan built Bonfire around what they wished existed Recalls their past experiences Kevan's path from running a publication (later sold to Vox) to Buffer and then Oyster Shannon's shared time with him at Oyster Mentions their recent milestone – Bonfire's first live retreat in France 13 participants, including them Held in a rented castle For a two-year-old business, he calls it ambitious and impressive Asks: "How did it go? What did people get out of it?" Shannon on the retreat Laughs that they're still processing what it was They had a vibe in mind – but not a fixed structure One participant described it as "a wellness retreat for marketers" Not wrong – but also not quite right Attendees came from tech and non-tech backgrounds The focus: exploring people's most meaningful relationship to work Who you are when you're not at your desk How to bring that awareness back to real life — beyond castles and catered meals People came at it from different angles Some felt misaligned with their work Others were looking for something new Everyone was at a crossroads in their career Kevan on the space they built The retreat encouraged radical honesty People shared things like: "I have this job because I crave approval." "I care about money as a status symbol." "I hate what I do, but I don't know what else I'd be good at." They didn't force vulnerability, but wanted to make it safe if people chose it They thought deeply about values – what needed to be true for that kind of trust Personally, Kevan says the experience shifted his identity From "marketer" to something else – maybe "producer," maybe "creator" The retreat made him realize how many paths are possible "Now I just want to do more of this." Robin notes there are "so many threads to pull on" Brings up family business and partnerships Shares his own experience growing up in his dad's small business Talks about lessons from Robin's Cafe and the challenges of partnerships Says he's fascinated by co-founder dynamics – both ...
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    59 min
  • The Human Cost of AI: A Debate with Miki Johnson

    The Human Cost of AI: A Debate with Miki Johnson
    Oct 19 2025
    Welcome back to Snafu with Robin Zander. In this episode, I'm joined by Miki Johnson – coach, facilitator, and co-founder of Job Portraits, a creative studio that helped companies tell honest stories about their work and culture. Today, Miki leads Leading By Example, where she supports leaders and teams through moments of change – whether that's a career shift, new parenthood, or redefining purpose. We talk about how to navigate transition with awareness, why enjoying change takes practice, and what it means to lead with authenticity in uncertain times. Miki shares lessons from a decade of coaching and storytelling – from building human-centered workplaces to bringing more body and emotion into leadership. We also explore creativity in the age of AI, and how technology can either deepen or disconnect us from what makes us human. And if you're interested in these kinds of conversations, we'll be diving even deeper into the intersection of leadership, creativity, and AI at Responsive Conference 2026. If you're interested, get your tickets here! https://www.responsiveconference.com/ __________________________________________________________________________________________ 00:00 Start 01:20 Miki's Background and Reservations about AI Miki hasn't used AI and has "very serious reservations." She's not anti-AI – just cautious and curious. Her mindset is about "holding paradox", believing two opposing things can both be true. Her background shapes that approach. She started as a journalist, later ran her own businesses, and now works as a leadership coach. Early in her career, she watched digital technology upend media and photography – industries "blown apart" by change. When she joined a 2008 startup building editable websites for photographers, it was exciting but also unsettling. She saw innovation create progress and loss at the same time. Now in her 40s with two sons, her focus has shifted. She worries less about the tools and more about what they do to people's attention, empathy, and connection – and even democracy. Her concern is how to raise kids and stay human in a distracted world. Robin shares her concerns but takes a different approach. He notes that change now happens "day to day," not decade to decade. He looks at technology through systems, questioning whether pre-internet institutions can survive. "Maybe the Constitution was revolutionary," he says, "but it's out of date for the world we live in." He calls himself a "relentless optimist," believing in democracy and adaptability, but aware both could fail without reform. Both worry deeply about what technology is doing to kids. Robin cites The Anxious Generation by Jonathan Haidt and says, "I don't believe social media is good for children." He and his fiancée plan to limit their kids' screen time, just as Miki already does. They see it as a responsibility: raising grounded kids in a digital world. Robin sees AI as even more transformative – and risky – than anything before. "If social media is bigger than the printing press," he says, "AI is bigger than the wheel." He's amazed by its potential but uneasy about who controls it. He doubts people like Sam Altman act in the public's best interest. His concern isn't about rejecting AI but about questioning who holds power over it. Their difference lies in how they handle uncertainty. Miki's instinct is restraint and reflection – question first, act later, protect empathy and connection. Robin's instinct is engagement with vigilance – learn, adapt, and reform systems rather than retreat. Miki focuses on the human and emotional. Robin focuses on the structural and systemic. Both agree technology is moving faster than people can process or regulate. Miki uses curiosity to slow down and stay human. Robin uses curiosity to move forward and adapt. Together, they represent two sides of the same challenge: protecting what's most human while building what's next. 10:05 Navigating the Tech Landscape Miki starts by describing how her perspective has been shaped by living in two very different worlds. She spent over a decade in the Bay Area, surrounded by tech and startups. She later moved back to her small hometown of Athens, Ohio—a progressive college town surrounded by more rural areas. She calls it "a very small Austin", a blue dot in a red state. She loves it there and feels lucky to have returned home. Robin interrupts briefly to highlight her background. He reminds listeners that Miki and her husband, Jackson, co-founded an employer branding agency called Job Portraits in 2014, the same year they got married. Over eight years, they grew it to around 15 full-time employees and 20 steady contractors. They worked with major startups like DoorDash, Instacart, and Eventbrite when those companies were still small—under 200 employees. Before that, they had started another venture in Chicago during Uber's early expansion ...
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    57 min