Most camps assume they need more inquiries to grow their guest group business, but many already have enough opportunities—they simply need a better system for converting them. Sustainable growth comes from responding quickly, building trust throughout the sales process, and creating consistent follow-up that helps prospective groups confidently choose your camp.

Carl opens the episode with a practical marketing tip reminding camp leaders that every inquiry has an expiration date. He explains why responding within one business day, following up consistently, scheduling clear next steps, and tracking every opportunity in a CRM dramatically increases the likelihood of turning inquiries into bookings. As Carl says, marketing creates opportunities, but sales turns those opportunities into ministry and revenue.

Mark is joined by Lindy Pinkerton and Heather Trail from Inspiring Growth to discuss how virtual sales support is helping camps strengthen their guest group sales process without adding the cost and complexity of expanding their internal staff. They share practical insights on qualifying leads, building stronger relationships with prospective groups, simplifying contracts, improving communication, and creating systems that ensure every inquiry receives the attention it deserves. Throughout the conversation, they explain how becoming an extension of a camp's team—not simply an outside vendor—helps camps increase bookings, improve rebooking rates, and build sustainable long-term growth through better sales systems.

Keywords

virtual sales, guest group sales, camp CRM, camp marketing, Christian camps, retreat center marketing, follow-up systems, lead conversion, guest group bookings, sales process, HubSpot CRM, camp growth

Sound Bites

"The fortune is in the follow-up."

"We don't use 'they.' We say 'we.' We are your people."

“If you follow up more than the other person and better than the other person you can often win them.”

"Marketing creates opportunities. Sales turns those opportunities into ministry and revenue."

“What camp can do in the life of a child and adult can change a family, can change a generation.”

Hosts

Mark P. Fisher, Inspiring Growth

Carl Lefever, Improve & Grow

Guests

Lindy Pinkerton, Virtual Sales at Inspiring Growth
Heather Trail, Virtual Sales at Inspiring Growth

Resources

Talk with Inspiring Growth About Virtual Sales

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Most camps assume they need more marketing to grow. Mark Fisher argues many actually have a capacity problem hiding in plain sight.

Before diving into the main conversation, Mark shares a practical camp marketing tip: share benefits, not just features. Instead of simply promoting climbing walls, zip lines, or beautiful facilities, camps should tell stories that demonstrate real transformation. Parents and retreat planners don't just want information, they want evidence that camp changes lives. By documenting one authentic story each week, camps can create more compelling marketing that connects emotionally with future guests.

The main conversation introduces Capacity Yield Management, a practical approach to helping camps generate more revenue, serve more guests, and strengthen long-term sustainability by making better use of the facilities they already have. Through real-world examples, Mark and Carl explain why "full" often isn't actually full, how outdated booking practices quietly cost camps thousands of dollars, and why better stewardship of existing resources can unlock significant growth.

You'll learn how to evaluate true capacity, manage reservation holds, determine when exclusive use makes financial sense, balance multiple guest groups, identify hidden facility constraints, and build the operational systems that maximize both ministry impact and financial health.

capacity yield management, camp occupancy, camp revenue, retreat center management, Christian camps, camp marketing, storytelling marketing, guest group bookings, exclusive use, camp operations, camp leadership, camp stewardship

“I've seen camps over and over increase monthly income by 30 % just by maximizing their occupancy.”

“Combine, cancel, create, and cram. The four C's of yield management.”

“Sometimes you have to cancel or prune, in order to have more growth.”

“Maybe curiosity is one of the fastest paths back to joy.”

“People don't just want more information. They want evidence. Evidence through story that your camp is changing lives.”

Mark P. Fisher, Inspiring Growth

Carl Lefever, Improve &Grow

Mark P. Fisher, Inspiring Growth

The Spike of Success, by Mark P. Fisher

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Many camps dream of growing their ministry, but sustainable growth rarely comes from a single campaign or one great season. It happens through consistent leadership, clear messaging, intentional systems, and a willingness to confront the obstacles holding a camp back.

Mark opens the episode with a practical marketing tip on selling the problem before the program, explaining why camps should lead with the challenges their guests already feel, not simply the name or date of an event. When people recognize a problem they're trying to solve, they're far more likely to engage with your camp's solution.

Dave Crouse, Executive Director of Angeles Crest Christian Camp, shares the remarkable story of taking over a camp that couldn't pay its electric bill and transforming it into a thriving ministry serving nearly 7,000 guests each year. Dave discusses the leadership decisions that changed the trajectory of the camp, including clarifying the camp's brand, improving its digital presence, embracing data-driven decision making, and investing consistently in both facilities and people. He also explains how sustained growth strengthened donor confidence, funded major capital improvements, and positioned the camp to pursue even bigger ministry opportunities, including a bold vision to serve 10,000 guests annually.

Throughout the conversation, Dave reminds camp leaders that growth begins by honestly identifying the one or two obstacles preventing your camp from moving forward and intentionally building systems to overcome them.

camp leadership, camp marketing, Christian camps, retreat center marketing, nonprofit marketing, camp growth, branding, digital marketing, donor development, guest group marketing, executive director, stewardship

"My first day on the job, I was told that we were financially in the hole and that we didn't have enough money to pay the electric bill”

"Sell the problem before the program"

"I had to come to that realization what I had in the past was not gonna happen and and lead to growth now."

"When you start to get that consistent growth, a lot of other things come with it."

Mark P. Fisher
https://go.inspiringgrowth.biz/

Carl Lefever
https://improveandgrow.com/industries/camp-marketing/

Dave Crouse
Executive Director, Angeles Crest Christian Camp

Angeles Crest Christian Camp
https://angelescrest.com

The Paine Protocol by Mark P. Fisher

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Word-of-mouth has always been one of the strongest drivers of camp growth, but for many camps, it's still an informal process that's impossible to measure or improve.

Peter Elbaum, owner of Camp Tree and Operations Director at Greystone Camp, shares how camps can turn referrals into a repeatable growth system. Drawing from both his camp leadership experience and software engineering background, Peter explains why great systems free camp staff to focus on relationships instead of repetitive administrative work.

Mark and Carl also discuss why referrals consistently outperform many other marketing channels, how camps can reward families and staff without creating unnecessary complexity, and why measuring referral performance is essential for long-term growth. Peter shares practical examples from more than 100 camps using Camp Tree, including how one camp achieved a 15x return on investment by replacing guesswork with measurable referral tracking.

Keywords

camp referrals, referral marketing, Camp Tree, camper enrollment, staff recruitment, camp growth, word of mouth marketing, CampMinder integration, ambassador programs, camp operations, camp software, summer camp marketing

Sound Bites

"Camp needs to be referable."

“Often at camp, it seems like the default is to work harder and not necessarily smarter."

"You can't manage what you don't measure."

Hosts

Mark P. Fisher, Inspiring Growth

Carl Lefever, Improve & Grow

Guest

Peter Elbaum, Camp Tree

Chapters

00:03 Introduction and Setting the Scene
00:30 The Power of Camp Ministry
01:00 Building Relationships Through Camp Experiences
02:09 Marketing Insights: The Importance of Retargeting
05:43 Introducing Peter Elbaum and Camp Tree
07:49 Peter's Journey: From Camp to Tech
10:33 The Impact of Software Engineering on Camp Operations
12:15 Identifying Challenges in Camp Management
15:59 Acquiring Camp Tree: A New Chapter
18:16 The Value of Camp Tree for Camps
20:46 Referral Programs: What Works?
24:24 Success Stories: Measuring ROI with Camp Tree
26:51 Special Offer and Closing Thoughts

Resources

• Camp Tree — https://camptree.org
• Promo Code: GYC26 for $150 off your first year of Camp Tree
• Camp Operations Newsletter — https://campoperations.com

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Many camps struggle with visibility—not because their programs lack value, but because the right families, churches, and retreat planners never discover them.

Mark opens the episode with a practical camp marketing tip on following up with retreat inquiries that have gone silent, sharing a simple email subject line that can restart conversations and recover lost bookings. Then Carl shares how an unexpected project at Refreshing Mountain Camp introduced him to Google Ads and ultimately launched a career helping camps grow through digital marketing.

The conversation then turns to one of the biggest opportunities available to nonprofit camps: the Google Ad Grant. Carl explains how eligible 501(c)(3) organizations can receive up to $10,000 per month in free Google advertising, walks through the application process, campaign setup, keyword strategy, and the common mistakes that prevent camps from seeing results. He also shares real examples of camps using the grant to generate more registrations, retreat inquiries, and community engagement, along with his perspective on how AI is changing search and what camp leaders should be doing to stay visible online.

Keywords

Google Ads Grant, nonprofit marketing, camp marketing, retreat center marketing, Google advertising, camp enrollment, nonprofit advertising, digital marketing, summer camps, retreat bookings

Sound Bites

"About fifty percent of the camps I talk to have no idea the grant program exists."

"One of the biggest mistakes camps make is they apply for the grant and then they never do anything else with it."

"The reality is organic listings just continue to get pushed further and further down."

"You could start showing up at the top of Google and not have to pay for the ads."

Hosts

Mark P. Fisher, Inspiring Growth

Carl Lefever, Improve & Grow

Resources

How to Apply for a Google Ads Grant
https://growyourcamppodcast.com/blog/how-to-apply-for-google-ad-grant/

Google for Nonprofits Program Website
https://www.google.com/nonprofits/

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Many camp leaders assume the only way to grow revenue is to add more guests, build more facilities, or create more programs. But what if growth starts with better stewardship of the capacity you already have?

Mark Fisher shares the personal story that reshaped his career, including the health crisis and board decision that led him from camp leadership into consulting. That journey sets the stage for a practical conversation about one of the most misunderstood topics in camping: pricing.

Mark and Carl discuss why many camps underprice their highest-demand dates, how waitlists reveal hidden opportunities, and why demand-based pricing is about stewardship—not simply charging more. They break down practical ways to get started, including seasonal pricing, using waitlists as a decision-making tool, giving booking teams flexibility to solve problems, and creating pricing options that help both camps and guests succeed.

The episode also opens with a practical marketing tip on expanding your camp's online visibility through free directory listings, including Google Maps, Apple Maps, Yelp, tourism websites, and camp-specific directories.

Keywords

demand-based pricing, camp pricing strategy, camp revenue growth, camp sustainability, seasonal pricing, camp waitlists, retreat center pricing, camp stewardship, camp capacity management

Sound Bites

"Our fifth son is being raised by a different father."

"That day, that generosity unlocked the future for me."

"The F word. It's four letters and it's full."

"We're full, we're full. And I'll say, that's a cuss word we don't use. We say, we have a wait list."

"Waitlisting is really the indicator on a leader's dashboard."

Hosts

Mark P. Fisher, Inspiring Growth

Carl Lefever, Improve & Grow

Chapters

00:00 Episode Soundbites

00:13 Introduction

01:17 Quick Camp Marketing Tip

06:55 Mark's Story

18:10 Camp Pricing

22:15 The Waitlist: Your Demand Signal

34:15 Putting Demand-Based Pricing to Work

42:20 Communicating Price Changes

47:32 Real Results & Camp Stories

52:08 Baby Steps to Get Started

Resources

Camp Directory Listings Guide

Never Split the Difference by Chris Voss

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Refreshing Mountain has doubled revenue over the last decade while maintaining a strong focus on guest relationships and retention. In this episode, Administrative Director Justin Harnish shares the principles that helped the camp grow without losing the culture that built its reputation.

Mark opens with a personal dedication to his mother’s 85th birthday and reflects on the people and experiences that shape camp leaders over time.

Carl’s quick marketing tip explains why camps should stop sending every audience to the same homepage and how dedicated landing pages can improve conversions and lead generation.

Justin then shares his personal camp story and how a formative camp experience shaped both his faith and belief in the long-term power of camp ministry.

The conversation explores the two “Christian marketing principles” guiding Refreshing Mountain’s growth strategy. “Relationships Trump Everything” focuses on intentional guest care and personalized communication. “Return Business Is Worth Investing In” covers stewardship, rebooking strategy, guest retention, and why long-term relationships drive sustainable growth.

Justin also shares lessons around guest feedback, occupancy planning, and how adding meeting room capacity became a major growth driver for year-round bookings.

Keywords

camp marketing, camp retention, rebooking strategy, retreat center growth, guest experience, Christian camp leadership, landing pages for camps

Sound Bites

• “Relationships trump everything.”
• “Return business is a metric of integrity.”
• “The camps growing fastest online make visitors instantly feel: ‘This is exactly for me.’”
• “Happy returning guests are your best marketing.”

Hosts

Mark P. Fisher, Inspiring Growth
Carl Lefever, Improve & Grow

Guest

Justin Harnish, Refreshing Mountain

Chapters

00:05 Welcome & Episode Dedication
02:38 Quick Camp Marketing Tip
08:40 Justin's Camp Story
09:29 The Power of Camp Experiences
11:57 Refreshing Mountain Background
14:51 Balancing Business and Ministry
15:57 Org Challenges During Season of Growth
22:52 Principles of Relationship-Driven Service
24:53 Understanding Rebooking and Customer Feedback
26:42 Enhancing Customer Experience Through Personalization
30:09 The Importance of Rebooking and Customer Relationships
37:13 Investing in Return Business
45:20 The Impact of Meeting Room Capacity on Revenue
45:57 Growth Partnership with Improve & Grow
48:22 Making Way for Innovation at Camp
53:22 Episode Debrief with Mark & Carl
59:42 Closing Message & New Website Features

Resources

Refreshing Mountain Christian Marketing Principles

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Hume New England launched with a bold mission: bring the Hume camp experience to the Northeast and expand gospel impact in a region with fewer large Christian camp ministries. But early years brought operational setbacks, financial pressure, staffing challenges, and a camp model that didn’t fit the realities of East Coast churches.

Before the interview, Mark shares a marketing tip about “riding the wave” instead of trying to create one. He explains how listening to church leaders led Hume New England to shorten camp sessions, lower pricing, and redesign programs around what churches and families actually needed—changes that ultimately helped fill more beds and increase ministry impact.

Brian Mount then shares what it was like stepping into Hume New England as COO during COVID and leading a turnaround effort that required operational changes, measurable marketing systems, and a willingness to challenge long-standing assumptions. The conversation explores adapting camp structures for smaller churches, embracing guest groups, improving follow-up and marketing accountability, and overcoming internal resistance to change.

The results were significant:

• Summer campers grew from roughly 620 to nearly 1,200
• Guest group revenue increased from about $500,000 to $1.4 million
• Camp seasons moved from empty beds to waitlists
• Staff morale and ministry momentum dramatically improved

Brian also shares encouragement for camp leaders navigating difficult seasons and explains why understanding your market may require rethinking long-held traditions without compromising mission.

Keywords

camp growth, Christian camp leadership, camp marketing, guest group strategy, summer camp enrollment, camp profitability, church partnerships, Hume New England, ministry growth, leadership development

Sound Bites

“Tradition is a tool. It’s not a trophy.”

“We were doing the same thing over and over, expecting different results.”

“Every empty bed is a potential missed opportunity for someone to hear the gospel.”

“Start small and don’t be afraid to fail.”

Hosts

Mark P. Fisher, Inspiring Growth
Carl Lefever, Improve & Grow

Guest

Brian Mount, LifeShape International

Chapters

00:00 Introduction and Background
00:56 Quick Camp Marketing Tip
04:19 Brian Mount Introduction & Camp Story
07:38 Leadership and Transformation at Hume
09:13 Early Days at Hume
15:51 Lessons Learned from Early Struggles
17:39 Personal Journey and Influences
19:09 The Decision to Partner for Growth
23:51 Strategic Changes and Marketing Innovations
29:36 Indicators of Positive Change
34:00 Achieving Profitability and Impact
40:06 Encouragement for Struggling Camp Leaders

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