Everyone is talking about virtual power plants, but as I discuss with EnergyHub CEO Seth Frader-Thompson, not all VPPs are created equal. We get nerdy on the various stages of VPP maturity and the specific technical requirements that VPPs must meet to truly compete with conventional power plants rather than just acting as “enhanced demand response.”

I’In this episode, I chat with Swedish tech entrepreneur Jonas Birgersson about his radical plan to apply the architecture of the internet—packet switching, buffering, and decentralized routing—to the electricity grid. We explore how his “EnergyNet” concept uses power electronics to create galvanically separated microgrids that stop cascading failures and allow neighbors to share power directly. It is a mind-bending look at how treating electrons like data could lead to unlimited energy for a low fixed fee.

Conventional geothermal energy is limited to specific hot spots, but “closed-loop” geothermal, by going deeper and confining water to sealed boreholes, promises to work almost anywhere; it amounts to building a giant radiator, deep underground. I’m joined by Jeanine Vany and Mark Fitzgerald of pioneering closed-loop startup Eavor to discuss their newly operational plant in Germany and the many advantages of a system that requires no fracking and consumes no water.