Jon and Kory discuss the unexpected viral success of 3, 5, 7, 9, and the psychology that made the idea resonate.

They unpack where the framework came from, why repetition helps ideas stick, and how marketers can use memorable language without crossing the line from persuasion into indoctrination.

Along the way, they explore why great brands have great taglines, what campaigns can learn from 3, 5, 7, 9, and how a simple idea becomes something people want to repeat.

Useful links:

• Kellyn Smith Kenny’s 3-5-7-9 framework
• Virtuosi League

Timestamps

00:00 - Start
00:57 - The viral clip
01:49 - How does the viral clip benchmark against other clips
03:48 - The comments on the viral video
04:54 - Where does 3, 5, 7, 9 come from?
06:09 - Why 3, 5, 7, 9 works
10:52 - Have any marketing campaigns adopted 3, 5, 7, 9?
16:49 - Persuasion vs indoctrination
20:15 - Why good brands have great taglines
21:44 - 3, 5, 7, 9 - repeated

Jon and Kory discuss the traits that separate renegade leaders from the rest.

From courage and risk tolerance to persistence and a bias for action, they explore what it takes to challenge conventional thinking inside large organisations, especially when bureaucracy, short-term pressure and fear of failure make bold decisions difficult.

Timestamps

00:00 - Start
01:16 - The core characteristics of a Renegade leader
02:39 - 3 surprising facts about Renegade leaders
03:49 - Why are companies so risk averse
08:00 - Challenging the status quo
13:47 - Why great leaders have courage
15:47 - Having a high risk tolerance
19:36 - Why e.l.f. want their competitors to get bigger
21:03 - Why great leaders provide air cover
21:49 - Renegade leaders are persistent
22:56 - Beating bureaucracy
24:18 - Do one thing, do it well
25:46 - Bias for action
26:56 - Jon does strategic distillation

Jon and Kory discuss why, in an increasingly online world, some of the most important work still happens when people are together in a room.

From recording the podcast face-to-face to building high-performing teams, they explore what is lost when every interaction becomes a scheduled video call. Not productivity or convenience, but the trust, informal learning and unexpected opportunities that are much harder to create remotely.

They examine the changing attitude towards office life, including a Gen Z counter-swing towards real-world connection, and why some investors remain wary of backing fully remote teams. Kory also shares why e.l.f. is continuing to invest in in-person experiences, and how events can create connections that genuinely change someone’s career or life.

Timestamps

00:00 - Start
00:25 - Why we do the podcast in person
01:56 - How many companies are back in offices
04:46 - The Gen Z counterswing
07:33 - Why investors only invest in in-person teams
08:36 - The power of IRL within teams
12:19 - The unexpected opportunities that happen IRL
13:31 - Why e.l.f. are investing in in-person events
17:04 - How in-person events can change lives
18:27 - How do we use IRL in an ever online world
20:03 - A question from Jon and Kory