Pastors are carrying more emotional and spiritual weight than most congregations realize—and many churches still treat counseling and discipleship as if they’re separate worlds. In this episode of the Thinking Christian Podcast, Dr. James Spencer is joined by Dr. Steve Stuhlreyer (Professor of Counselor Education at Columbia International University, former lead pastor) to talk about what it looks like when the church becomes a place of healing, relational care, and wise referral.

Steve explains why the line between discipleship and counseling is often a false dichotomy. While some cases require trained clinical care (and sometimes medical collaboration), most people seeking help are what Steve calls the “worried well”—believers navigating grief, stress, anxiety, loneliness, transitions, and everyday burdens that can’t be carried alone. In those cases, what’s often missing isn’t a diagnosis—it’s relationship: a trusted person who can listen, walk with them, and help them grow in Christ.

James and Steve also discuss the unique pressures pastors face: living in a fishbowl, constant availability, criticism, and the real loneliness that comes with leadership. Steve shares why many pastors won’t disclose struggles to denominational systems or even church members, and how chronic pressure can contribute to burnout, depression, anxiety, and in some situations, even trauma-like symptoms. The result is not just personal pain—it can limit a pastor’s ability to lead with spiritual health and long-term resilience.

Finally, the conversation turns practical: What can churches do? Steve offers concrete advice for building a healthier ecosystem where lay care, discipleship, and counseling support work together—freeing trained counselors to focus on complex cases while the church becomes a genuine “hospital” for everyday burdens. They also touch on men’s ministry and why Christian manhood must be formed by Christlike strength, humility, and grace, not cultural machismo.

Topics include:

• The overlap between counseling and discipleship

• Who truly needs clinical counseling—and who needs relational support

• Why pastors are often lonely (and afraid to be honest)

• How trauma and burnout can develop in ministry

• Practical ways elders and church leaders can care for pastors

• Men’s discipleship that builds strength without bravado

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To read James's article on this topic, check out his author page on Christianity.com.

📢 Stay Connected & Keep Growing!

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This episode is sponsored by Trinity Debt Management. “Whether we’re helping people pay off their unsecured debt or offering assistance to those behind in their mortgage payments, Trinity has the knowledge and resources to make a difference. Our intention is to help people become debt-free, and most importantly, remain debt-free for keeps!" If your debt has you down, we should talk. Call us at 1-800-793-8548 | https://trinitycredit.org/

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Why do so many Christians feel like they’re “bad at prayer”? In this episode of the Thinking Christian Podcast, Dr. James Spencer sits down with Addison Bevere (President of Messenger International) to talk about prayer as presence, not performance—and why shame and distraction keep God’s people from the intimacy they were made for.

Addison shares the origin story behind RediscoverPrayer.com and a pivotal conversation with his dad that reshaped his view of prayer: “I pray for about 15 minutes… and then I just listen.” That moment helped expose a common misconception—many people assume prayer is a spiritual performance, a transaction, or a checklist. But Scripture invites something deeper: constant prayer as constant receptivity, lived from a place of rest and God-consciousness rather than self-consciousness.

James and Addison discuss how modern life trains our attention toward anxiety and control, and how rebuilding a prayerful “cadence” can reorient our entire day. Addison explains why attention is a real sacrifice, why the first hour of the morning can have a disproportionate impact, and how prayer energizes every other spiritual discipline instead of merely being one more item on the list.

They also explore:

• Why “pray without ceasing” isn’t a burden, but an invitation to ongoing intimacy

• The difference between formulas and frameworks for prayer

• How the enemy uses shame to turn prayer into a place of disqualification

• How prayer changes us—even when we’re messy, distracted, or unsure what to say

• Why the church needs to recover the sacredness of God’s presence in community to make disciples today

Addison’s newest resource, Words with God Prayer Journal, is designed as a practical framework to help people reflect, recenter, rest, receive, ask, and respond—building a life of prayer that carries into every moment.

Resources mentioned:

• Purchase Words with God Prayer Journal here.

• RediscoverPrayer.com

• MessengerX.com (Messenger International’s discipleship app)

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🔗 Download a free resource "Making Everyday Decisions So That God Gets the Glory" from Useful to God: www.usefultogod.com

To read James's article on this topic, check out his author page on Christianity.com.

📢 Stay Connected & Keep Growing!

If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe to Thinking Christian so you never miss an insightful conversation!

This episode is sponsored by Trinity Debt Management. “Whether we’re helping people pay off their unsecured debt or offering assistance to those behind in their mortgage payments, Trinity has the knowledge and resources to make a difference. Our intention is to help people become debt-free, and most importantly, remain debt-free for keeps!" If your debt has you down, we should talk. Call us at 1-800-793-8548 | https://trinitycredit.org/

Discover more Christian podcasts at lifeaudio.com and inquire about advertising opportunities at lifeaudio.com/contact-us.

Is discipleship mainly about trying harder—or is it something God does in us?

In this short, focused segment on the Thinking Christian Podcast, Roger Ross explains why the Holy Spirit is the prime mover in the entire work of Christian discipleship. If spiritual growth becomes merely human effort, Roger argues, we’ve missed the point of how God actually transforms people.

Using growth as a concrete example, Roger describes how the Holy Spirit opens our minds and hearts to what God wants to teach us—often through ordinary means like books, worship, relationships, and even painful experiences. God can use any moment as a formative “teaching point,” and mature disciples learn to recognize when something they’re hearing or experiencing is a clear prompt: “That was for me. I need to pay attention.”

This episode will encourage you to rethink spiritual formation—not as self-powered improvement, but as Spirit-led transformation that can happen through every circumstance of life.

In this episode, you’ll learn:

• Why the Holy Spirit—not discipline alone—is the engine of discipleship

• How God uses ordinary and difficult experiences to produce spiritual growth

• What it means to be spiritually attentive to God’s “this is for you” moments

• How to avoid turning discipleship into self-help Christianity

You can purchase Kinda Christian: From Curious to Serious about Jesus here.

Subscribe to our YouTube channel

🔗 Download a free resource "Making Everyday Decisions So That God Gets the Glory" from Useful to God: www.usefultogod.com

To read James's article on this topic, check out his author page on Christianity.com.

📢 Stay Connected & Keep Growing!

If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe to Thinking Christian so you never miss an insightful conversation!

This episode is sponsored by Trinity Debt Management. “Whether we’re helping people pay off their unsecured debt or offering assistance to those behind in their mortgage payments, Trinity has the knowledge and resources to make a difference. Our intention is to help people become debt-free, and most importantly, remain debt-free for keeps!" If your debt has you down, we should talk. Call us at 1-800-793-8548 | https://trinitycredit.org/

Discover more Christian podcasts at lifeaudio.com and inquire about advertising opportunities at lifeaudio.com/contact-us.