Pastors are carrying more emotional and spiritual weight than most congregations realize—and many churches still treat counseling and discipleship as if they’re separate worlds. In this episode of the Thinking Christian Podcast, Dr. James Spencer is joined by Dr. Steve Stuhlreyer (Professor of Counselor Education at Columbia International University, former lead pastor) to talk about what it looks like when the church becomes a place of healing, relational care, and wise referral.

Steve explains why the line between discipleship and counseling is often a false dichotomy. While some cases require trained clinical care (and sometimes medical collaboration), most people seeking help are what Steve calls the “worried well”—believers navigating grief, stress, anxiety, loneliness, transitions, and everyday burdens that can’t be carried alone. In those cases, what’s often missing isn’t a diagnosis—it’s relationship: a trusted person who can listen, walk with them, and help them grow in Christ.

James and Steve also discuss the unique pressures pastors face: living in a fishbowl, constant availability, criticism, and the real loneliness that comes with leadership. Steve shares why many pastors won’t disclose struggles to denominational systems or even church members, and how chronic pressure can contribute to burnout, depression, anxiety, and in some situations, even trauma-like symptoms. The result is not just personal pain—it can limit a pastor’s ability to lead with spiritual health and long-term resilience.

Finally, the conversation turns practical: What can churches do? Steve offers concrete advice for building a healthier ecosystem where lay care, discipleship, and counseling support work together—freeing trained counselors to focus on complex cases while the church becomes a genuine “hospital” for everyday burdens. They also touch on men’s ministry and why Christian manhood must be formed by Christlike strength, humility, and grace, not cultural machismo.

Topics include:

• The overlap between counseling and discipleship

• Who truly needs clinical counseling—and who needs relational support

• Why pastors are often lonely (and afraid to be honest)

• How trauma and burnout can develop in ministry

• Practical ways elders and church leaders can care for pastors

• Men’s discipleship that builds strength without bravado

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To read James's article on this topic, check out his author page on Christianity.com.

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