Learn the small shift that makes referrals repeatable.

Check out our new video training.

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What happens when years of planting seeds finally meets the right market moment?

Alexis Trammel is Chief Growth Officer at Stratabeat, a B2B SaaS organic growth agency. She recently transitioned from account management into a biz dev role. But the real story is how timing and preparation collided. For years, Stratabeat was doing the unglamorous work: niching down, building LinkedIn presence, publishing original research, speaking at conferences, nurturing relationships. Then GEO (generative engine optimization) hit right as AI anxiety peaked, and suddenly the leads started flooding in. This conversation explores what it looks like when the groundwork you've been laying finally pays off, and why most agencies aren't ready when their moment arrives.

What You'll Leave With:

• Why lead flow needs to exist before you hire a salesperson—not the other way around
• How years of niching down positioned them to catch the GEO wave
• The compounding value of original research, LinkedIn presence, and conference visibility
• Why internal sales hires often outperform external ones when the foundation is there
• How to keep planting seeds even when you're not sure which one will sprout
• The seasonality reality and why "when it rains, it pours" cuts both ways

Timestamps:

• [00:00] Introduction to Alexis Trammel and Stratabeat
• [02:36] The long road of niching down and eliminating services
• [03:19] When AI panic created unexpected demand for GEO
• [05:16] Original research as a lead gen and credibility play
• [07:46] Coming back from maternity leave to a sales opportunity
• [10:00] Why the lead flow has to come before the sales hire
• [11:47] Wearing both the sales and marketing hats
• [14:10] Planning for seasonality when you're riding a wave
• [16:41] LinkedIn as long-term brand building, not cold outreach
• [22:04] GEO converting better than almost everything except referrals
• [30:12] The relationship groundwork that makes referrals possible

Mentioned Resources / Links:

• Stratabeat - B2B SaaS organic growth agency
• Never Eat Alone by Keith Ferrazzi
• Alexis Trammell on LinkedIn
• Tom Shapiro on LinkedIn

When clients start asking "What am I paying you for?", most assume they have a pricing problem on their hands when they're actually facing an operations problem.

Leah Leaves is the founder and CEO of Alderaan Operations, where she embeds operations directors and part-time digital project managers directly into remote agencies. In this conversation, she reveals what's happening when clients question an agency's value - asking for more deliverables, questioning reports, or wondering why they can't just use cheap tools themselves.

A few things we covered:

• Why the same operational bottlenecks agencies have always had are now happening at 10x-100x speed
• The exact question clients are asking agencies right now (and how the best agencies are answering it)
• How agencies are reinvesting time saved by AI into client experience, productized tools, and advisory services
• The "bionic org chart" framework for documenting what AI owns versus what humans own
• A practical system for turning meeting transcripts into searchable client context that actually gets used
• Why hiring people who want to stay static in their role is a feature, not a bug
• The shift from deliverables-based positioning to strategic marketing partner (and why AI makes this more urgent)

Timestamps:

• [00:00] Introduction: Leah Leaves and the state of agency operations
• [01:26] Same issues, 10x-100x speed: What's really changing with AI
• [03:37] The question clients are asking: "What am I paying you for?"
• [06:38] How agencies are answering the value question differently
• [11:15] Moving from execution to advisory: Selling thinking, not deliverables
• [15:30] The art of productive client meetings (and why most fail)
• [20:45] Hiring strategy: Finding people who want to grow vs. stay static
• [29:47] The bionic org chart: Documenting AI's role on your team
• [32:17] Practical AI implementation: Turning meeting notes into searchable knowledge
• [34:20] Ideas that wouldn't exist without reduced latency
• [35:29] Where to find Leah and learn more about operation

Alderaan Operations - Leah's company embedding ops directors in agencies

Leah Leaves on LinkedIn - Connect with Leah

Looking to build a repeatable, referral-focus biz dev system inside of your agency?

Check out our new video training: https://hey.salesschema.com/opt-in-mw-referral-engine

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What if successful agency business development isn't about having the perfect system, but about showing up consistently in the right conversations?

John Caruso is the Director of Business Development at Vendilli, where he's spent the last six years navigating the messy reality of agency growth. With a decade of BD experience spanning traditional and digital agencies, John has learned that there's no magic formula, just consistent effort in the right places. In this conversation, he shares the unglamorous truth about what BD actually looks like day-to-day, why agency owners set their BD hires up to fail by expecting results too quickly, and how he learned the craft by sitting in dozens upon dozens of sales meetings with his team.

What You'll Leave With:

• The realistic timeline for a BD hire to become truly effective at an agency
• How to structure your day when client needs constantly derail your plans
• Why sitting in sales meetings with experienced agency owners builds BD skills faster than any course
• The "shortlist" dynamic that determines whether prospects even consider your agency
• How to think about the division between marketing and sales activities
• What systems need to exist before bringing on a dedicated BD person
• An education-first approach to staying top of mind without being pushy

Timestamps:

• [00:00] Introduction: John's journey from traditional to digital agency BD
• [02:30] The reality of a day in the life of agency business development
• [05:40] What activities consistently drive revenue for agencies
• [10:30] Why getting on prospect "shortlists" matters more than perfect positioning
• [15:45] Moving beyond transactional referral requests
• [20:15] How the BD landscape has shifted over the past decade
• [28:34] What needs to be in place before hiring a BD person
• [29:04] The learning curve: why it takes 6-9 months minimum to see results
• [31:10] How Vendilli divides marketing and sales responsibilities
• [33:25] Where to learn more about John and Vendilli

Vendelli: https://www.vendilli.com/

John on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/johncaruso-vendilli/

Here's what nobody tells you about referrals: the real value isn't the introduction, it's identifying who will keep referring you for years.

In this episode, Dan breaks down why the classic "let me know if you know anyone who needs our services" approach fails almost every time, and walks through a systematic process for turning your existing network into a consistent source of warm introductions, tastefully.

What You'll Leave With:

• Why asking "know anyone who might need our services?" puts massive cognitive load on your contacts (and what to ask instead)
• The three biggest referral mistakes agency owners make and how each one sabotages your results
• How vertical vs. horizontal relationships determine whether someone will refer you
• The specific ask process: transitioning from categories of people to named individuals your connector actually knows
• A practical approach to mapping your LinkedIn network for "referral ready connectors" without spam
• Why strategic partnerships should be prototyped through referrals first, not started with commission structures
• How to think about the time investment: high-touch, high-leverage vs. volume plays that don't fit specialized agencies

Resources

Are you an upmarket-focused agency interested in setting up a referral-based new business system?

Lets talk - go here for details: https://hey.salesschema.com/referral-engine-lp

New Video Training.

Referrals already work for your agency, but you've never optimized them. Learn how in our latest video training: https://hey.salesschema.com/opt-in-mw-referral-engine

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This year-end review distills the most important lessons from a year of conversations with agency owners, researchers, and growth experts who've been in the trenches.

What You'll Leave With:

• Why trust has replaced awareness and differentiation as the scarce resource in agency growth
• The counterintuitive sales-to-delivery handoff that makes closing easier (even though it seems expensive)
• How to move referrals from passive hope to systematic pipeline generation
• The difference between economic headwinds as obstacles versus excuses
• Why specialization is no longer a debate but table stakes for competitive agencies
• The rise of agency perspective
• An under-discussed macro trend that could reshape entire marketing niches over the next few years

Episodes Referenced:

-Nick Petroski: https://salesschema.com/the-data-you-need-before-you-build-your-2026-biz-dev-plan-with-nick-petroski/

-Brooke MacLean: https://salesschema.com/how-brooke-maclean-built-an-80-person-agency-with-zero-debt/

-Brock Murray: https://salesschema.com/scaling-past-50-employees-how-seo-plus-built-a-global-agency/

-Spencer Gallagher:

-Stewart Gandolf: https://salesschema.com/lessons-from-building-an-eight-figure-niche-agency-stewart-gandolf/

-Erik J. Olson: https://salesschema.com/erik-j-olson-on-why-most-agencies-plateau-and-how-to-build-one-that-grows-predictably/

-Stephen Woessner: https://salesschema.com/stephen-woessner-on-the-smile-graph-ais-impact-on-agencies/

-Karl Sakas: https://salesschema.com/karl-sakas-on-scaling-smart-and-reclaiming-your-time/

-Todd Gagne: https://salesschema.com/karl-sakas-on-scaling-smart-and-reclaiming-your-time/

Chances are referrals work for your agency. Maybe they're the only thing that ever has. But you've never optimized them.

[Note: this is an encore of an episode originally aired 12/3/25].

If your agency is stuck in "the Cobbler's Children phase", where you deliver great work for clients but new business feels chaotic and reactive, this episode offers a way out. I'm sharing my referral workshop from the All In Agency Summit, condensed from 60 to 30 minutes of pure strategy. This isn't about random networking or hoping referrals happen. It's about installing a repeatable system that generates 2-5 targeted introductions weekly without cold outreach spam or burning out your team.

What You'll Leave With:

• The four-level agency maturity model and how to identify which phase you're actually in
• Why the 2020 shift made trust—not awareness—the scarce resource in B2B sales
• The high school gym versus NFL stadium test for choosing the right lead gen strategy based on your market size
• A two-pronged outreach approach that keeps your pipeline full even when you're wearing too many hats
• The simple emotional game-changer that gets introductions to actually happen instead of sitting in limbo
• The one data tool you need to get started without expensive SaaS platforms
• Why asking for referrals is actually a positive-sum game that benefits everyone involved
• How to systematize client referrals so your account team generates opportunities automatically
• The sprint-to-marathon framework that proves this approach scales beyond your immediate network

if you're using the holiday break to plan for a strong Q1, this conversation will reshape how you think about pipeline.

[this is an Encore Episode originally aired December 3, 2025]

Nick Petroski, founder of Promethean Research and the industry's go-to source for agency market data, spent years studying what actually drives growth for digital agencies. Not best practices or guru advice, but real numbers from real shops.

What he found challenges conventional wisdom. The agencies getting the most predictable growth aren't the ones with the slickest outbound machines, they're the ones who've built systems around relationships they already have. Nick breaks down the ownership gaps, comp structures, and tactical frameworks that separate random referrals from repeatable revenue. If you're heading into 2026 wondering whether your pipeline issues are a "you" problem or a market problem, this conversation will help you see which levers you actually control.

What You'll Leave With:
-The "is it me or the market?" framework for diagnosing your real pipeline problems
-Why shrinking total addressable markets make relationship-based growth less optional and more strategic
-How to structure account manager compensation to drive growth, not just retention (70-30 vs 60-40 splits explained)
-A tactical approach for asking clients for specific introductions without feeling pushy or salesy
-Why your Fortune 500 "locked down" account might actually be your biggest referral opportunity
-The consultative mindset shift that makes asking for referrals feel like service, not sales
-How to identify which accounts actually have referral potential worth pursuing

Mentioned Resources / Links:

-Video Training: How to Scale Your Agency with Systematic Referrals and Strategic Partnerships (30 min)

-From Random to Repeatable: The Digital Agency Referral Playbook - Nick's research report on systematizing referrals

What actually drives agency growth when pipelines are noisy, buyers are skeptical, and everyone sounds the same?

In this episode, Dan Englander sits down with Alex Marshall, a longtime agency growth leader with two decades of experience across holding companies and independents, to unpack what really moves the needle. They explore why trust and relevance matter more than tactics, how storytelling shows up late in the sales cycle, and why relationships compound over time even when results aren’t immediate.

This is a grounded conversation about growth as a discipline, not a hack.

🧭 What You’ll Learn

• The real differences between growth at holding companies vs independents
• Why agency specialization can both help and hurt sales
• How storytelling works after the first sales call
• Why “just checking in” emails fail
• What actually reactivates dormant or boomerang clients
• How to stay relevant to skeptical CMOs
• Why relationship-building beats short-term metrics
• How agencies should think about referrals and alliances

🕒 Timestamps

00:00 – Alex’s background and global agency experience
04:30 – Holding companies vs independents: growth tradeoffs
06:00 – Relationship-building across regions and cultures
10:20 – When specialization helps — and when it limits you
16:45 – Storytelling as a sales tool, not just marketing
20:40 – Coalition-building in complex B2B sales
23:30 – Re-engaging dormant and boomerang clients
26:40 – Why timing and relevance matter more than frequency
29:20 – Managing time across the full funnel
32:10 – Measuring progress without over-relying on metrics
35:00 – Selling to skeptical CMOs in uncertain markets
38:00 – Why referrals and trust compound over time
41:00 – Strategic partnerships and being “something to someone”
45:45 – Making referral asks easier — and more effective