In this week's episode of the Imitation Nation Podcast, Sven and Shabbir talk with Piotr Stryszowski, a long time expert in the global counterfeit trade problem. Check it out! Shabbir (00:01) Welcome to Imitation Nation. This is Imitation Nation, maybe episode 36, and we have our first European guest on. So this is the first time we've tried Sven (00:11) Yay. Shabbir (00:11) to span an ocean. Our guest today is Piotr Stryszowski from the OECD. We've got a lot of exciting things to talk about. And if you don't follow Piotr on LinkedIn, you should. Shabbir (00:22) And he has a he has a lot to say about the counterfeit trade and we're gonna talk a little about that today. But thank you for making time for us. It's very well it's very generous of you. Piotr (00:33) Thank you for having me. Shabbir (00:34) tell us a little bit about y how you got into illicit trade because you're obviously a international expert in illicit trade, which is why we we are so excited to talk to you. What what's your origin there? What's what was your entree and what do you find most fascinating? Piotr (00:52) Well, Shabbir thank you so much for this introduction. I'm really honored. I'm an economist by training, right? So sometimes asking myself, who am I to tell people something? my best skill is to bring people to the table smarter than me, offer them some coffee, excellent French croissants, and listen to them. but back to your question. well, I'm an economist by training. Piotr (01:15) Right, I did my PhD in the economics of IP, intellectual property, how actually intellectual property adds value to products, to countries. It's a legal concept, but how to assess economically IP? Is it possible? Right. That was that was my main thesis. and then after I completed this, I got a job at the OVCD. Piotr (01:41) Where eventually, after some years, I ended up managing working party on countering illicit trade. Right, so it's it sounds a bit of a stretch from IP to illicit trade, but actually it's not. Right? The our working party is dedicated to understanding illicit trade today. Piotr (02:06) At the OECD, well, we are mostly economists, right? we work with data. We want to understand things using data, using numbers. so when you apply this logic to illicit trade, you see that there is lots of counterfeit goods being smuggled today. That's explains the kind of the move from like an IP economist, smart, arrogant, and young. Piotr (02:32) To well, I wish humble, humble bureaucrats trying to understand what's the hell is going on out there in this world. but well, thank you for mentioning me being as an expert, right? My my role here at the OECD, I see it, is to understand how illicit trade looks like and to help our member countries with the knowledge, right? But I gather knowledge from data. Piotr (02:58) And from talking to people who know more about this subject than me. Sven (03:02) Very cool. Well, Piotr, it's really, really nice to meet you. I read your most recent report w with a lot of interest. you know, for me I found it really, really fascinating that the study that we're gonna discuss, kinda report that you've done, it it's it's really the first study I've seen that had been done, and you were one of the lead authors on it that was trying to statistically demonstrate kind of Sven (03:28) what the relationship is between forced labor and weaker labor protections and illicit trade. So can you talk about what what you have found in that report? What's the connection between forced labor and counterfeit goods? I I I'd love for you to share that. Piotr (03:47) Excellent question. maybe before jumping to this question, some like background information. our work, I mean, we are in the international organization, right? Meaning that our work is overseen by our member countries. We're really proud to work for member countries, right? What we do is supposed to help countries and citizens, people in these countries. we work a lot with the United States. Piotr (04:13) With the PTO, with DHS, with the State Department. And because we work for countries, sometimes we don't have the luxury Sven (04:22) Yeah. Piotr (04:22) of going into our interpretations. We must be very conservative in what we publish, in what we what we do. Right? So I'm just saying this as a preemptive, well, I know how to say it. Piotr (04:36) strike to say that our findings are sometimes trivial and obvious, Sven (04:40) Yeah. Piotr (04:41) right? Well you mentioned link between forced labor and counterfeit trade or trade in counterfeit goods. When you think about it conceptually it's in a way trivial or it becomes straightforward. But our work is really to to change a narrative from seems to into is right so Sven (05:02) And Piotr (05:03) We need to be comfortable to say, yes, there is a link, right? Or now our work, as I said, we want to gauge the problems, we want to understand the problems using data. And we have a big data set that comes from customs offices ...
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28 min