What if understanding why we do what we do could help us navigate life’s uncertainties?

In this episode of Holy Uncertain, hosts Lauren Ranzino and Chris McLeod are joined by bestselling author, psychotherapist, Episcopal priest, and Enneagram teacher Ian Morgan Cron to explore what the Enneagram is, how it works, and why so many people have found it helpful.

Ian breaks down the Enneagram as a system of nine personality types shaped by different core motivations - not a set of labels that defines who we are. Together, they look at how each type might respond when certainty starts to unravel: what we cling to, what we avoid, what makes us feel safe, and what healthier growth can look like when faith or life feels disorienting.

The conversation also turns to Ian’s novel Chasing Francis: A Pilgrim’s Tale, newly released in a 20th-Anniversary Edition. The novel follows a pastor whose crisis of faith leads him on a pilgrimage into the life and spirituality of St. Francis of Assisi, and offers another way of thinking about what can happen when the faith or identity we’ve relied on no longer holds.

If you’ve ever been curious about the Enneagram - or wondered why you respond to doubt, conflict, change, or uncertainty the way you do - this episode offers a helpful place to start.

Continue learning from Ian Morgan Cron:
www.ianmorgancron.com
Instagram: @ianmorgancron

Listen to Ian’s Podcast:
Typology

Read Ian’s Books:
Chasing Francis: A Pilgrim’s Tale — 20th-Anniversary Edition
The Road Back to You: An Enneagram Journey to Self-Discovery
The Story of You: An Enneagram Journey to Becoming Your True Self

Have a question or topic you want us to explore?
Email us: questions@holyuncertain.com

Holy Uncertain is a Blue Elevator production.

“Jesus died for your sins.”
For many of us who grew up in church, that phrase felt like Christianity 101. But what does it actually mean – and is there only one Christian way to understand what happened on the cross?

In this episode of Holy Uncertain, Lauren Ranzino and Chris McLeod are joined by pastor and author Derek Vreeland to explore how Christians have understood the death of Jesus throughout history. Together, they talk about penal substitutionary atonement, why punishment became such a dominant way of explaining the cross in some Christian traditions, and the other biblical images Christians have used to understand salvation.

They also wrestle with bigger questions like ‘What are we actually being saved from?’ ‘What does sin mean if we understand it through the lens of love rather than shame?’ and ‘What do we do when the Bible gives us metaphor and mystery instead of a tidy theological explanation?’

This conversation isn’t about replacing one rigid answer with another. It’s about making room to ask what the death and resurrection of Jesus might mean – and whether our understanding of the cross leads us toward greater love of God, ourselves, and one another.

Continue to learn from Derek Vreeland:
www.derekvreeland.com
Instagram: @derekvreeland
Substack: Peaceable and Kind
Listen to Derek’s Podcast: Peaceable and Kind

Read Derek’s Books:
Centering Jesus: How the Lamb of God Transforms Our Communities, Ethics, and Spiritual Lives
Crucifixion: 8 Lessons on How God Saves Us
And many more books

Have a question or topic you want us to explore?
Email us: questions@holyuncertain.com

Holy Uncertain is a Blue Elevator production.

Can theology meant to point us toward God actually be used to justify abuse?

In this deeply personal episode, host Lauren Ranzino shares how theology was used to justify abuse within her own family, and why that experience has left her asking hard questions about the beliefs we hold and the ways they shape our churches.

Lauren and Chris are joined by theologian, professor, and author Grace Ji-Sun Kim to explore how harmful theology and our understandings of God can contribute to environments where abuse is excused, overlooked, or allowed to continue.

Together, they talk about teachings around authority, submission, and forgiveness, why reading Scripture in context matters, and how the language and metaphors we use for God can shape the way we treat one another. Grace also introduces a challenging and potentially healing understanding of Jesus as someone who experienced sexual violence and identifies with survivors in their suffering.

If you’ve ever wondered how the church can better protect those who are vulnerable - or how our theology might need to change in order to do so - this conversation offers an important place to begin.

Continue to learn from Grace Ji-Sun Kim:
Grace’s Website
Instagram: @gracejisunkim
Grace’s Substack
Madang Podcast, Grace’s podcast

Read Grace’s Books:
Surviving God: A New Vision of God Through the Eyes of Sexual Abuse Survivors
When God Became White: Dismantling Whiteness for a More Just Christianity
And More

This episode includes direct discussion of sexual assault and abuse.
If you or someone you know has experienced sexual assault or abuse and needs support, RAINN’s National Sexual Assault Hotline offers free, confidential support 24 hours a day.
Call 800-656-HOPE (4673), text HOPE to 64673, or visit RAINN.org.

Have a question or topic you want us to explore?
Email us: questions@holyuncertain.com

Holy Uncertain is a Blue Elevator production.