Israel defines itself as both a Jewish state and a democratic one. But balancing those two identities raises fundamental questions about equality, national identity, and who gets to define what it means to be a Jewish state.

On this episode of Disputed Territory, we're bringing in Israel Policy Forum's heavy hitter Chief Policy Officer Michael Koplow to help us try to answer this question. A longtime analyst of Israeli politics and American Jewry, Michael writes the weekly Koplow Column and contributes to publications including Foreign Affairs, The Atlantic, Foreign Policy, and frequently appears on Vox's Today, Explained, NPR, War on the Rocks, and in The Washington Post, The New York Times, Jewish Insider, and more.

Together, they explore what makes Israel both Jewish and democratic, where those commitments come into tension, and what Israel's Jewish identity means for its non-Jewish citizens. They also examine Israel's relationship with Jews around the world and who ultimately gets a say in shaping the country's identity.

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Much of the conversation around Israel and Palestine puts pressure on choosing a side—which side's suffering matters, whose violence deserves condemnation, and whose story gets heard. Too often, this leaves little room for empathy and fuels the dehumanization of Israelis and Palestinians alike.

Shanie sits down with Palestinian human rights and peace advocate Ihab Hassan, who was born and raised in Ramallah in the West Bank. Ihab has been outspoken in condemning extremism and violence on both sides—documenting Jewish terrorism against Palestinians in the West Bank daily, while rejecting Palestinian terrorism against Israeli civilians as a means of resistance. His willingness to denounce violence regardless of who perpetrates it has drawn criticism from across the political spectrum.

Ihab and Shanie discuss why it can be so difficult to hold empathy for Israelis and Palestinians at the same time, how acknowledging suffering on both sides can be mistaken for creating false equivalencies, and what gets lost when solidarity with one people requires abandoning the other. They also explore what it takes to criticize your own community and how moving beyond dueling narratives, contests of victimhood, and debates over historical grievances can create space for more productive conversations about a better future for both peoples.

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Talking about Israel has become its own battleground.

Shanie sits down with Israeli writer, speaker, and creator Hen Mazzig to explore how the conversation around Israel became so polarized—and why disagreement so often turns into a fight over who gets to speak, what can be said, and which perspectives are considered legitimate.

They discuss the impact of social media on the Israel debate, the pressure to choose a side, and why holding multiple truths at once has become increasingly difficult. They also explore what productive disagreement can actually look like—and how we can make more room for people who are conflicted or still figuring out what they believe.

For more information on Hen, follow him on Substack or Instagram. You can learn more about the Tel Aviv Institute at https://tlvi.org/

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