Episodi

  • Counterproductive: Michel & Alex Auder

    Counterproductive: Michel & Alex Auder
    Oct 9 2026

    In this episode, Michel Auder and Alexandra Auder share insights into their lives immersed in art, film, and New York's counterculture. They discuss how their experiences shape their creative processes, the mythic status of the Chelsea Hotel, and the intersection of life and art.


    keywords: Michel Auder, Alexandra Auder, Chelsea Hotel, New York art scene, film, autobiography, counterculture, life and art, video art, memoirs


    key topics:

    • Michel Auder's evolution from France to New York filmmaker
    • Alexandra Auder's upbringing in the Chelsea Hotel and her memoir
    • The influence of Viva and the New York counterculture
    • The relationship between life experiences and artistic creation
    • The mythic status of the Chelsea Hotel and its impact on artists
    • The role of technology in Michel Auder's video art
    • The concept of living authentically versus performing for the camera
    • The influence of fame and art world dynamics on personal life
    • The creative process and the ongoing evolution of Michel Auder's work


    Chapters


    00:00 Introduction to Michel and Alexandra Auder

    01:55 Michel Auder's early life and move to New York

    03:51 Alexandra's upbringing in the counterculture

    05:46 The influence of Viva and the Chelsea Hotel

    08:00 Living life as art and the role of technology

    10:03 Family, relationships, and the myth of the Chelsea Hotel

    11:52 The intersection of life, art, and memory

    14:08 Michel's approach to filmmaking and video art

    15:57 Reflections on fame, art world, and authenticity

    18:00 Parenthood, love, and the experience of living authentically

    20:02 The creative process and future projects

    22:29 - The Chelsea Hotel as myth, workplace, and lived reality

    26:01 - Making art from life and the camera as constant presence

    29:03 - Boring details, labor, and the magic of ordinary life

    30:21 - Remains of the Day and Michel’s archive-based new work

    33:25 - Being on camera before social media and the proto-millennial experience

    36:23 - Warhol, the Factory, and fame as a mixed blessing

    40:10 - The Chelsea’s transformation

    43:13 - Michel on the art world, survival, and power

    46:39 - Alex on yoga, capitalism, and rejecting spiritual branding

    49:12 - Michel on magical moments with Alex

    53:30 - How big life feels when art and identity are inseparable

    57:14 - Michel’s upcoming show and the making of Remains of the Day

    60:46 - Alex on The Plaisant, medieval jesters, and quantum entanglement

    63:05 - Closing thoughts

    Counterproductive is a podcast about how people live—authors, nomads, scientists, visual artists, and others whose ways of being bend against the ordinary. Each conversation lingers less on résumé and more on rhythm: how a life is made, how meaning is stitched together, how imagination might serve as a compass in chaotic times.


    Hosted by Nato Thompson with producer Marisa Mazria Katz, the series drifts between art, politics, and the everyday, searching out voices who remind us there are countless ways of living a life.

    Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
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    1 ora
  • Counterproductive: Mel Chin

    Counterproductive: Mel Chin
    Sep 9 2026
    Nato Thompson (TAAS founder) talks with artist and TAAS instructor Mel Chin about a career built on systems, research, and public-facing impact. They cover Chin’s early life in Houston, his crisis and recovery as a teenager, and the long arc from ceramics and conceptual art into projects that fuse ecology, activism, and policy.We discuss: how childhood, illness, and family shaped Chin’s practice; why he moved from studio work into research-driven public projects; and how Revival Field led to later civic interventions like Operation Pay Dirt and Fundred. The conversation also gets into the limits of theory without action, the realities of art-world economics, and why Chin sees the current moment as one that demands reframing and engagement.Key topicsNato introduces Mel Chin as a five-decade artist whose work spans sculpture, installation, environmental remediation, social practice, gaming, architecture, and science.Chin describes growing up in Cashmere Gardens in Houston, working in his parents’ grocery store, and learning from a community that was already built.He recalls a teenage mental breakdown, months in a hospital bed, and the loss and relearning of drawing as a formative rupture in his life.Chin explains how that recovery sharpened his sense that art is a tool for examination, not just representation.He traces his path through ceramics in Nashville, where hands-on making pulled him away from a conventional gallery career model.He recounts working on Bob Altman’s Nashville, painting a van and building sets and props while still returning to clay and survival work.He reflects on his early political works, including projects tied to Central America, Tibet, the CIA, and scientific or mythic inquiry.He tells the origin story of Revival Field, sparked by a note about plants that could extract toxic metals from soil.He frames Revival Field as both a poetic idea and a pragmatic intervention that might outlast his lifetime.He connects that logic to Operation Pay Dirt and Fundred, explaining how Hurricane Katrina and lead poisoning in New Orleans pushed the work toward policymaker education.Chin emphasizes that the project was designed to gather voices, build civic pressure, and support lead remediation—not simply to stage an art event.He reflects on the present as a time of crisis, but also of potential, where art must be redefined through action and engagement.Timestamps00:00 — Intro to Mel Chin and The Alternative Art School ethos02:34 — Pandemic aftermath and the shock of Hurricane Helene in North Carolina05:23 — Cashmere Gardens, family grocery stores, and an already-built community07:24 — Drawing on butcher paper and the first lessons from the grocery store10:16 — Early introversion, sensitivity, and the teenage breakdown11:37 — Hospitalization, recovery, and relearning speech and drawing16:08 — Why art became a tool for self-examination and survival18:09 — From recovery to an interdisciplinary art practice20:05 — Ceramics in Nashville and the decision to leave conventional paths behind22:36 — Working on Bob Altman’s Nashville 26:49 — First museum show, collaborators, and the move toward research-based work29:31 — The influence of Dominique de Menil and art with social consequence32:57 — Political works and the opening toward Revival Field33:55 — The disappointment of no sales and the decision to stop making art38:03 — The idea that became Revival Field39:39 — Katrina, New Orleans, and the beginnings of Operation Pay Dirt41:32 — From helping to policymaker education and the birth of Fundred45:46 — Half a million hand-drawn bills and the work’s public life47:02 — What feels urgent now: crisis, reframing, and action51:02 — Why camaraderie and transmission matter more than individual authorship51:34 — Trump, climate, complicity, and Chin’s call for reckoningCounterproductive is a podcast about how people live—authors, nomads, scientists, visual artists, and others whose ways of being bend against the ordinary. Each conversation lingers less on résumé and more on rhythm: how a life is made, how meaning is stitched together, how imagination might serve as a compass in chaotic times.Hosted by Nato Thompson with producer Marisa Mazria Katz, the series drifts between art, politics, and the everyday, searching out voices who remind us there are countless ways of living a life. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
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    54 min
  • Counterproductive: Tania Bruguera

    Counterproductive: Tania Bruguera
    Aug 5 2026

    In this episode of Counterproductive, Nato Thompson speaks to Tania Bruguera, a renowned performance and social practice artist. She discusses the intersections of art, activism, and political resistance, while highlighting her experiences in Cuba, Europe, the United States and beyond.



    Key Topics
    • Tania Bruguera’s early years in Havana during a time of revolution and political upheaval
    • The influence of her family’s involvement in activism and the revolutionary movement
    • Her experience navigating censorship and artistic expression under different regimes
    • The concept of Arte Útil (Useful Art) and its role in addressing social issues through creative practice
    • The significance of her performances that challenge totalitarianism and government censorship
    • The creation of political projects like Immigrant Movement International and their impact
    • A detailed recount of her provocative performance projects, including the project "Tatlin’s Whisper" and its repercussions
    • The influence of Hannah Arendt on her understanding of power, politics, and the role of the artist
    • Reflections on the complexities of community, artistic responsibility, and the limits of art’s engagement with social issues
    • Her experiences with suspension, censorship, and the ongoing fight for artistic freedom in a contentious political landscape


    Timestamps

    00:00 - Introduction and background of Tania Bruguera

    00:20 - The role of the Alternative Art School and her diverse upbringing

    01:19 - Growing up during Cuba’s revolutionary period and family history

    02:04 - Artistic influences and controversial projects in Cuba and beyond

    02:50 - Her academic career and teaching at Harvard University

    03:38 - Early years of activism and how her upbringing shaped her art

    04:22 - The impact of her family’s political involvement

    05:08 - Witnessing conflicts and invasions in Lebanon and Panama

    06:22 - How her family’s activism influenced her approach to art

    07:33 - Her studies in different countries and the influence of exile

    09:24 - The destruction she witnessed during her childhood in Lebanon

    10:47 - Language skills and cultural influences in her early life

    11:53 - Challenges faced under political regimes and her family’s experiences

    12:32 - The contrast between idealized portrayals of Cuba and her reality upon return

    13:28 - Artistic beginnings and early influences, including Juan Francisco Elso

    14:23 - Her experimentation with performance art and early projects

    15:55 - The significance of Ana Mendieta’s work and influence

    16:38 - Her perspective on land art, femininity, and culture in her practice

    18:14 - The importance of cultural identity and diasporic consciousness

    19:29 - Her education in Cuba and the importance of experimental work

    22:10 - The repercussions of her art in Cuba, including arrests and censorship

    23:39 - Her first interrogation and her response through art inspired by Hannah Arendt

    27:31 - The shift to symbolic performance work and personal expressions of political dilemmas

    30:48 - The relationship between her political stance and her artistic activism

    31:12 - The critique of systemic corruption and the role of arts education

    32:37 - Founding her own art school to foster community engagement

    33:13 - The challenges of social engaged art and community involvement

    36:48 - Immigrant Movement International and its aims to redefine community politics

    39:00 - The importance of imagination and social questioning in Arte Util projects

    43:47 - The complexity of community participation and audience engagement

    46:13 - The evolution of socially engaged art and its contemporary forms

    50:22 - The censorship challenges exemplified through her performances in Europe and Cuba

    54:32 - Reflections on her "Tatlin’s Whisper" project in Berlin amid geopolitical tensions

    67:12 - Final thoughts on the relationship between art, society, and activism


    Counterproductive is a podcast about how people live—authors, nomads, scientists, visual artists, and others whose ways of being bend against the ordinary. Each conversation lingers less on résumé and more on rhythm: how a life is made, how meaning is stitched together, how imagination might serve as a compass in chaotic times.


    Hosted by Nato Thompson with producer Marisa Mazria Katz, the series drifts between art, politics, and the everyday, searching out voices who remind us there are countless ways of living a life.

    Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
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    1 ora e 7 min
  • Counterproductive: Sasha Stiles

    Counterproductive: Sasha Stiles
    Jul 7 2026

    In this episode of Counterproductive, Nato Thompson sits down with Sasha Stiles, a pioneering AI researcher, poet, and artist, to delve into the intricate relationship between art, technology, and language. They explore how digital and analog practices interweave, challenge perceptions of AI, and address the energetic and ethical implications of emerging tech in creative spaces.


    Main Topics:

    • Sasha Stiles' background: From literature and science to digital art and AI
    • The intersection of poetry, coding, and generative art
    • The influence of language as a technology and its philosophical dimensions
    • Personal projects: binary, analog binary code, and time-based art
    • The potential and pitfalls of NFTs, blockchain, and Web3 for artists
    • Early collaborations with large language models and AI as an epistemological tool
    • The socio-ecological impacts and ethical concerns surrounding AI development
    • The role of subtlety, nuance, and poetry in discussing AI’s societal effects
    • Future visions: AI as a perception-expanding instrument and new modes of expression


    Timestamps:

    00:02 - Introduction to the podcast and guest Sasha Stiles

    00:32 - Sasha Stiles’ artistic and academic background

    01:32 - Her work at MoMA, Art Basel, and engagement with AI

    02:39 - Early passion for language and technology’s influence on art

    03:54 - Projects involving binary code, calligraphy, and analog binary

    04:48 - The relationship between analog and digital practices

    09:33 - Exploring the concept of technology beyond computers

    10:14 - Reframing how we think about artificial intelligence and its cultural narratives

    13:37 - Contrast between the experimental forms in poetry and literature

    17:16 - The evolution of Web3, NFTs, and their impact on artists

    18:23 - Personal history and the influence of family and cultural background

    26:50 - The integration of science, religion, and speculative futures in poetry

    30:12 - Collaborations with large language models and AI as a creative partner

    34:48 - AI’s capacity to reveal new perceptions and understanding

    43:33 - AI as an instrument of perception, not just a tool

    47:10 - Societal effects: dependency, social norms, and the shadow of technology

    52:37 - The nuanced discourse around AI, poetry, and subtlety

    55:33 - The importance of time and slow, reflective art forms

    58:47 - Sasha’s upcoming physical art show exploring binary and heritage

    59:14 - Closing thoughts and the importance of ongoing dialogue


    Resources & Links:

    • Sasha Stiles - Official Website
    • The Alternative Arts School

    Connect with Sasha Stiles:

    • Instagram

    Connect with The Alternative Art School:

    • Instagram


    Note: This episode critically engages with the potentials and perils of AI and digital culture, emphasizing nuanced dialogue, artistic experimentation, and the ethics of technological futures.

    Counterproductive is a podcast about how people live—authors, nomads, scientists, visual artists, and others whose ways of being bend against the ordinary. Each conversation lingers less on résumé and more on rhythm: how a life is made, how meaning is stitched together, how imagination might serve as a compass in chaotic times.


    Hosted by Nato Thompson with producer Marisa Mazria Katz, the series drifts between art, politics, and the everyday, searching out voices who remind us there are countless ways of living a life.

    Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
    Mostra di più Mostra meno
    57 min