In this episode, Michel Auder and Alexandra Auder share insights into their lives immersed in art, film, and New York's counterculture. They discuss how their experiences shape their creative processes, the mythic status of the Chelsea Hotel, and the intersection of life and art.

keywords: Michel Auder, Alexandra Auder, Chelsea Hotel, New York art scene, film, autobiography, counterculture, life and art, video art, memoirs

key topics:

• Michel Auder's evolution from France to New York filmmaker
• Alexandra Auder's upbringing in the Chelsea Hotel and her memoir
• The influence of Viva and the New York counterculture
• The relationship between life experiences and artistic creation
• The mythic status of the Chelsea Hotel and its impact on artists
• The role of technology in Michel Auder's video art
• The concept of living authentically versus performing for the camera
• The influence of fame and art world dynamics on personal life
• The creative process and the ongoing evolution of Michel Auder's work

Chapters

00:00 Introduction to Michel and Alexandra Auder

01:55 Michel Auder's early life and move to New York

03:51 Alexandra's upbringing in the counterculture

05:46 The influence of Viva and the Chelsea Hotel

08:00 Living life as art and the role of technology

10:03 Family, relationships, and the myth of the Chelsea Hotel

11:52 The intersection of life, art, and memory

14:08 Michel's approach to filmmaking and video art

15:57 Reflections on fame, art world, and authenticity

18:00 Parenthood, love, and the experience of living authentically

20:02 The creative process and future projects

22:29 - The Chelsea Hotel as myth, workplace, and lived reality

26:01 - Making art from life and the camera as constant presence

29:03 - Boring details, labor, and the magic of ordinary life

30:21 - Remains of the Day and Michel’s archive-based new work

33:25 - Being on camera before social media and the proto-millennial experience

36:23 - Warhol, the Factory, and fame as a mixed blessing

40:10 - The Chelsea’s transformation

43:13 - Michel on the art world, survival, and power

46:39 - Alex on yoga, capitalism, and rejecting spiritual branding

49:12 - Michel on magical moments with Alex

53:30 - How big life feels when art and identity are inseparable

57:14 - Michel’s upcoming show and the making of Remains of the Day

60:46 - Alex on The Plaisant, medieval jesters, and quantum entanglement

63:05 - Closing thoughts

Counterproductive is a podcast about how people live—authors, nomads, scientists, visual artists, and others whose ways of being bend against the ordinary. Each conversation lingers less on résumé and more on rhythm: how a life is made, how meaning is stitched together, how imagination might serve as a compass in chaotic times.

Hosted by Nato Thompson with producer Marisa Mazria Katz, the series drifts between art, politics, and the everyday, searching out voices who remind us there are countless ways of living a life.

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