Recruitment has always rewarded specialists — but how do you stay niche when you're scaling across multiple markets? On this episode of Carrot & Stick, host Derry Holt sits down with Chris Atiyah, CEO and Co-founder of Engtal — a Chicago-based firm that has scaled to 50 people across three specialist brands with zero attrition in over eight months.

Chris shares his journey from Portsmouth to the Midwest and how a relentless focus on the right people, the right markets, and the right technology has built one of recruitment's most quietly impressive businesses.

If you want to know what a successful, AI-enabled recruitment business looks like in practice, this episode is for you.

How do you build a recruitment agency that not only scales but survives the founder’s eventual exit? On this episode of Carrot & Stick, host Derry Holt dives deep with Sam Crisp, the former founder of the highly successful SaaS recruitment agency, Arama. Sam shares his explosive journey of growing a business to 60 people and then making the strategic decision to step away. The discussion tackles the critical mistakes in early-stage scaling, the hidden dangers of the 'shiny client' syndrome, and why process, systems, and data integrity are the true architecture of long-term success.Discover the framework Sam now uses at his new consultancy, Axonas, to optimize internal talent teams—lessons learned directly from a decade on the front line.

Martin Doig and Robbie Sturgess, founders of Verto People, join Derry Holt to explain how their 99% perm agency not only survived a pandemic launch but rapidly scaled to 38 employees by prioritizing relentless daily Business Development (BD) over fleeting contract trends.They share their controversial stance on cold calling, detail their data-driven hiring methodology, and unpack the crucial lessons learned from scaling too fast into unfamiliar markets like Germany.Key Takeaways:- "Cold Calling is alive": The controversial view that BD must be done every day, non-negotiable.- The Data-Driven Hire: Using psychometrics to vet recruiters for sales aptitude, resulting in an 80%+ success rate.- Scaling Lessons: Why they intentionally pulled out of the German market and software niches to focus resources entirely on explosive US engineering growth.- The 8-Touch Rule: How Verto ensures success by following a highly targeted, multi-touch BD process for every single candidate.