"My coworker is a narcissist—and so is our boss. What happens when two narcissists have to work together?"

This week's Fan Mail question comes from a YouTube listener who writes: "Thank you for all your content! Very helpful. I am curious to know - what tends to happen when 'a narcissist meets a narcissist' - meaning they are introduced to each other, are coworkers or need to cooperate with each other in some way or even end up being partners? Are there any patterns to or are there typical characteristics/outcomes to this dynamic? Might they not be aware that they are both narcissists?"

In this episode, Dr. Kerry breaks down what really happens when two highly narcissistic people enter each other's orbit—whether they fast-bond over shared grandiosity, descend into brutal competition for dominance, or manage an ice-cold alliance for mutual benefit. She explains the collusion-to-competition pipeline, why narcissistic couples can look magnetic but feel exhausting, and why most narcissists will never see themselves the way they see each other.

Submit Your Question

If you'd like your question addressed on air, send it here: 👉 https://kerrymcavoyphd.fillout.com/fan-mail

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More About Dr. Kerry

Kerry Kerr McAvoy, Ph.D, a retired psychologist and author, is an expert on cultivating healthy relationships and deconstructing narcissism. Her blogs have been featured in Mamami, YourTango, Scary Mommy, and The Good Men Project.

In Love You More, Dr. McAvoy gives an uncensored glimpse into her survival of narcissistic abuse, and her workbook, First Steps to Leaving a Narcissist, helps victims break free from the confusion common in abusive relationships. She hosts the Breaking Free from Narcissistic Abuse podcast and offers trauma-related advice on social media.

Submit your question to be answered on air to the Fan Mail link below!

Support the show

Disclaimer: This podcast/video is for educational purposes only. It does not constitute therapy, counseling, or professional mental health advice. If you are in crisis, please call 911 or your local emergency number.

Why do loving parents sometimes push away the very children they'd do anything for?

This week, Catherine Hickem joins Dr. Kerry to unpack one of the most painful dynamics in modern families—parental estrangement. We explore how unspoken expectations create invisible walls, why parents mistake control for connection, and how grief work (yes, grief work) is the secret to letting your adult children become who they actually are, not who you needed them to be.

PODCAST EXTRA EXCLUSIVE SEGMENT

Find the exclusive second segment and weekly newsletter here: https://substack.com/@breakingfreenarcabuse

MORE ABOUT THE PODCAST EXTRA INTERVIEW

🔹 Stuck waiting for certainty before you leave?

Catherine and Dr. Kerry tackle the cognitive dissonance trap—why you'll never feel "ready" to go, how to make the hardest decision of your life without clarity, and why almost no one regrets leaving once they finally do.

👉 Get immediate access to this extended interview: https://substack.com/@breakingfreenarcabuse

MORE ABOUT CATHERINE HICKEM

• Website: https://www.parentingadultchildrentoday.com
• TikTok: @parentingadultchildrentd
• Email: catherine@parentingadultchildrentoday.com

CATHERINE HICKEM, LCSW, is a licensed clinical social worker, psychotherapist, executive and family coach, and founder of Parenting Adult Children Today. With over 40 years of experience and a master's degree in clinical social work from the University of Louisville, Catherine has dedicated her career to helping parents navigate the often-overlooked complexities of raising adult children. She is the author of Regret-Free Parenting and specializes in estrangement recovery, teaching parents how to release expectations, grieve unmet dreams, and rebuild relationships grounded in acceptance rather than control.

Stay in Touch With Dr. Kerry!

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• Facebook

More About Dr. Kerry

Kerry Kerr McAvoy, Ph.D, a retired psychologist and author, is an expert on cultivating healthy relationships and deconstructing narcissism. Her blogs have been featured in Mamami, YourTango, Scary Mommy, and The Good Men Project.

In Love You More, Dr. McAvoy gives an uncensored glimpse into her survival of narcissistic abuse, and her workbook, First Steps to Leaving a Narcissist, helps victims break free from the confusion common in abusive relationships. She hosts the Breaking Free from Narcissistic Abuse podcast and offers trauma-related advice on social media.

Submit your question to be answered on air to the Fan Mail link below!

Support the show

Disclaimer: This podcast/video is for educational purposes only. It does not constitute therapy, counseling, or professional mental health advice. If you are in crisis, please call 911 or your local emergency number.

A listener pushes back and asks, "How do we know the parent claiming alienation isn't actually the abuser manipulating the narrative?"

When a child rejects contact with a parent after separation, is it parental alienation or justified estrangement?

In this week's fan mail, a listener pushes back with a challenge about a previous episode that aired October 16, 2025, titled "Why Does My Ex Always Blame Me When the Kids Want Nothing to Do with Him?" This listener wanted to know how to tell when the person complaining about a toxic co-parent isn't actually the abuser.

Dr. Kerry unpacks the difference between alienation and estrangement, and what "fostering a relationship" actually means when required by a custody agreement.

Got a question or pushback? Send it via the link below or email clients@kerrymcavoyphd.com

Submit your question to be answered on air to the Fan Mail link below!

Support the show

Disclaimer: This podcast/video is for educational purposes only. It does not constitute therapy, counseling, or professional mental health advice. If you are in crisis, please call 911 or your local emergency number.

Ever wonder why betrayal feels so devastating—like more than just cheating?

This week, Hope Ray joins Dr. Kerry to introduce the concept of betrayal violence: the intersection of infidelity and abuse that most people don't recognize. We explore how sexual secrets create hidden power dynamics through deception, gaslighting, and exploitation—stripping partners of their consent and autonomy.

PODCAST EXTRA EXCLUSIVE SEGMENT

Find the exclusive second segment and weekly newsletter here: https://substack.com/@breakingfreenarcabuse

MORE ABOUT THE PODCAST EXTRA INTERVIEW

🔹 When you're the victim: How do you know if you have the whole truth? Hope shares practical guidance on finding trauma-informed support and determining whether your relationship can truly heal or if it's time to leave.

👉 Get immediate access to this extended interview: https://substack.com/@breakingfreenarcabuse

MORE ABOUT HOPE RAY

Website: https://www.hoperay.com

TikTok: @HopeRayTherapy

HOPE RAY is a licensed therapist specializing in betrayal trauma and relationship repair after infidelity. She works extensively with couples navigating the aftermath of sexual secrets and deception, helping partners understand the abusive dynamics created by hidden betrayal. Hope developed the concept of "betrayal violence" to give language to a specific type of harm that occurs when infidelity collides with patterns of deception, gaslighting, and exploitation—abuse that doesn't fit traditional domestic violence frameworks but causes catastrophic damage nonetheless. Through her therapeutic practice and social media presence, she offers a nuanced, compassionate approach that acknowledges both the possibility of genuine change and the importance of safety and truth for betrayed partners.

Stay in Touch With Dr. Kerry!

• Youtube
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• TikTok
• Facebook

More About Dr. Kerry

Kerry Kerr McAvoy, Ph.D, a retired psychologist and author, is an expert on cultivating healthy relationships and deconstructing narcissism. Her blogs have been featured in Mamami, YourTango, Scary Mommy, and The Good Men Project.

In Love You More, Dr. McAvoy gives an uncensored glimpse into her survival of narcissistic abuse, and her workbook, First Steps to Leaving a Narcissist, helps victims break free from the confusion common in abusive relationships. She hosts the Breaking Free from Narcissistic Abuse podcast and offers trauma-related advice on social media.

Submit your question to be answered on air to the Fan Mail link below!

Support the show

Disclaimer: This podcast/video is for educational purposes only. It does not constitute therapy, counseling, or professional mental health advice. If you are in crisis, please call 911 or your local emergency number.

"My partner has traits of both covert and overt narcissism—is that possible?" This week's Fan Mail question comes from a podcast listener who writes:

"Can a person be both a covert and an overt narcissist? I'm hearing the descriptions of each and my partner has traits of both." In this episode, Dr. Kerry breaks down the confusing language around narcissistic types—what "covert" and "overt" actually mean (hint: they describe symptoms, not people), why your partner can absolutely show both presentations, and most importantly, why the type matters far less than the pattern of harm you're experiencing.

Submit Your Question

If you'd like your question addressed on air, send it here: 👉 https://kerrymcavoyphd.fillout.com/fan-mail

Stay in Touch With Dr. Kerry!

• Youtube
• Instagram
• TikTok
• Facebook

More About Dr. Kerry

Kerry Kerr McAvoy, Ph.D, a retired psychologist and author, is an expert on cultivating healthy relationships and deconstructing narcissism. Her blogs have been featured in Mamami, YourTango, Scary Mommy, and The Good Men Project.

In Love You More, Dr. McAvoy gives an uncensored glimpse into her survival of narcissistic abuse, and her workbook, First Steps to Leaving a Narcissist, helps victims break free from the confusion common in abusive relationships. She hosts the Breaking Free from Narcissistic Abuse podcast and offers trauma-related advice on social media.

Submit your question to be answered on air to the Fan Mail link below!

Support the show

Disclaimer: This podcast/video is for educational purposes only. It does not constitute therapy, counseling, or professional mental health advice. If you are in crisis, please call 911 or your local emergency number.

Ever wondered how someone can exploit you sexually while you still love them?

This week, Pamela Takefman joins Dr. Kerry to explain how sexual coercion works—and why it doesn’t always require kidnapping or obvious physical force to be real. We discuss how exploitation can unfold in marriages, spiritual communities, and high-status celebrity circles (including public conversations like the P. Diddy case).

Learn how perpetrators gradually test boundaries until extreme exploitation feels normal, and why loving your abuser doesn’t mean the abuse isn’t real.

PODCAST EXTRA EXCLUSIVE SEGMENT

Find the exclusive second segment and weekly newsletter here: https://substack.com/@breakingfreenarcabuse

MORE ABOUT THE PODCAST EXTRA INTERVIEW

🔹 Think you might be experiencing coercion but aren't sure? Wondering what legal options exist for survivors?

Pamela reveals what qualifies as trafficking under federal law and how to assess whether you're psychologically ready to pursue justice through the court system.

👉 Get immediate access to this extended interview: https://substack.com/@breakingfreenarcabuse

MORE ABOUT PAMELA TAKEFMAN

Website: mcolaw.com

PAMELA TAKEFMAN is Deputy Head of the Sexual Misconduct in Spiritual Communities practice at McAllister Olivarius, where she represents survivors of sexual abuse, forced labor, and coercive control in cults, spiritual communities, and other high-control groups. Drawing on federal trafficking laws that recognize psychological coercion and fraud, Pamela helps survivors understand how manipulation in intimate relationships, religious organizations, and power-imbalanced situations constitutes trafficking—even when physical force was never used. Her work challenges the narrow public understanding of trafficking and provides legal pathways for survivors whose abuse occurred within relationships where love and exploitation coexisted.

Stay in Touch With Dr. Kerry!

• Youtube
• Instagram
• TikTok
• Facebook

More About Dr. Kerry

Kerry Kerr McAvoy, Ph.D, a retired psychologist and author, is an expert on cultivating healthy relationships and deconstructing narcissism. Her blogs have been featured in Mamami, YourTango, Scary Mommy, and The Good Men Project.

In Love You More, Dr. McAvoy gives an uncensored glimpse into her survival of narcissistic abuse, and her workbook, First Steps to Leaving a Narcissist, helps victims break free from the confusion common in abusive relationships. She hosts the Breaking Free from Narcissistic Abuse podcast and offers trauma-related advice on social media.

Submit your question to be answered on air to the Fan Mail link below!

Support the show

Disclaimer: This podcast/video is for educational purposes only. It does not constitute therapy, counseling, or professional mental health advice. If you are in crisis, please call 911 or your local emergency number.

If you’re dealing with narcissistic in-laws, you already know how surreal it feels: they watch abuse happen—and then insist it didn’t.

In this episode, we break down why narcissistic in-laws deny the truth, protect the abuser, and turn the target into “the problem.” You’ll learn the family-system roles that keep this going (enablers, flying monkeys, scapegoat dynamics) and what actually helps you stay grounded.

We revisit my interview with Rossana, who shares firsthand what it’s like when your partner’s family rallies against you. Plus, a listener story that mirrors this exact pattern—and what she did next.

Chapters

0:00 Toxic In-Law Drama During Holidays

4:13 Parenting Advice Wars: Water Battle

10:20 Six Reasons You Became the Problem

13:29 Your Growth Looks Like Defiance

16:30 Projecting Toxicity Onto Victim

21:41 Creating Couple Boundaries

PODCAST EXTRA

Next week, the Podcast Extra exclusive interviews will return.

All Substack paid subscribers now receive immediate access to the Toxic-Free Relationship Club, which includes:

• Invitation to the monthly Q&A with Dr. Kerry
• Quarterly club-wide events featuring narcissistic abuse experts
• Weekly newsletter with exclusive insights

👉 Join a supportive community dedicated to healing and recovery:

MORE ABOUT ROSSANA FAYE

Website: https://rollercoasteroflove.ca

Instagram & TikTok: @_rollercoasteroflove

Books: Rollercoaster of Love: Healing Journal - https://amzn.to/3MyRl8B

Narc Free Journal: A Step by Step Guide to Your Freedom - https://amzn.to/44eAFcH

ROSSANA FAYE knows what it's like to be trapped on an emotional rollercoaster. After surviving 14 years in an abusive relationship, she transformed her pain into purpose—becoming a Certified Life and Relationship Coach dedicated to helping others break free from narcissistic abuse.

As the founder of Rollercoaster of Love Inc. and host of Real Talk with Ro, Rossana creates content that's both relatable and deeply validating. She's the author of Rollercoaster of Love: Healing Journal and Narc Free Journal: A Step by Step Guide to Your Freedom—tools that guide survivors from trauma bonds to true freedom.

Stay in Touch With Dr. Kerry!

• Youtube
• Instagram
• TikTok
• Facebook

More About Dr. Kerry

Kerry Kerr McAvoy, Ph.D, a retired psychologist and author, is an expert on cultivating healthy relationships and deconstructing narcissism. Her blogs have been featured in Mamami, YourTango, Scary Mommy, and The Good Men Project.

In Love You More, Dr. McAvoy gives an uncensored glimpse into her survival of narcissistic abuse, and her workbook, First Steps to Leaving a Narcissist, helps victims break free from the confusion common in abusive relationships. She hosts the Breaking Free from Narcissistic Abuse pod

Submit your question to be answered on air to the Fan Mail link below!

Support the show

Disclaimer: This podcast/video is for educational purposes only. It does not constitute therapy, counseling, or professional mental health advice. If you are in crisis, please call 911 or your local emergency number.

Can a psychopath be a good person? And how do we spot dangerous people when they seem so charming?

This holiday special brings you an in-depth answer to one of your most-asked questions with highlights from Dr. Kerry's interview with Tara Blair Ball about the Dark Triad Personality.

We explore why dangerous people don't look scary, how we underestimate predatory behavior through "positive projection," and the critical difference between niceness and kindness—especially important to remember during the holiday season.

CHAPTERS

0:38 Can Psychopaths Live Morally?

7:09 Narcissism, Psychopathy & Machiavellianism Explained

10:09 Why We're Attracted to Arrogance & Confidence

13:04 The Stages of Moral Development

17:45 The Mask of Sanity: Nice Doesn't Mean Good

22:48 The Light Triad: The Opposite of Dark Personalities

PODCAST EXTRA

This week, there is no exclusive Podcast Extra interview. Instead, we're offering this special holiday edition to ALL Substack subscribers as our gift to you!

This is the perfect time to join our community.

SPECIAL ANNOUNCEMENT

All Substack paid subscribers now receive immediate access to the Toxic-Free Relationship Club, which includes:

-Invitation to the monthly Q&A with Dr. Kerry

-Quarterly club-wide events featuring narcissistic abuse experts

-Weekly newsletter with exclusive insights

Find the Substack newsletter and join the community here: https://substack.com/@breakingfreenarcabuse

👉 Get immediate access and join a supportive community dedicated to healing and recovery: https://substack.com/@breakingfreenarcabuse

Stay in Touch With Dr. Kerry!

• Youtube
• Instagram
• TikTok
• Facebook

More About Dr. Kerry

Kerry Kerr McAvoy, Ph.D, a retired psychologist and author, is an expert on cultivating healthy relationships and deconstructing narcissism. Her blogs have been featured in Mamami, YourTango, Scary Mommy, and The Good Men Project.

In Love You More, Dr. McAvoy gives an uncensored glimpse into her survival of narcissistic abuse, and her workbook, First Steps to Leaving a Narcissist, helps victims break free from the confusion common in abusive relationships. She hosts the Breaking Free from Narcissistic Abuse podcast and offers trauma-related advice on social media.

Submit your question to be answered on air to the Fan Mail link below!

Support the show

Disclaimer: This podcast/video is for educational purposes only. It does not constitute therapy, counseling, or professional mental health advice. If you are in crisis, please call 911 or your local emergency number.