Join co-hosts Dr. Jodie Park and Rose Mackey for a deep dive into one of the most complex emotions in clinical practice: Shame.

Why do we avoid talking about shame when it impacts so much of our work? In this episode, Jodie and Rose unpack the critical differences between “I am bad” (shame) and “I did something bad” (guilt), alongside the distinct nuances of embarrassment and humiliation. Drawing on insights from Brené Brown, Donald Nathanson, and Paul Gilbert, they explore how shame shows up in the room, from quiet withdrawal to overt aggression and perfectionism.

The hosts dive into Nathanson’s Compass of Shame, the physical and emotional toll of shame spirals, and how gendered expectations shape the way clients internalize or act out their pain. They tackle systemic shame in human services, reflect on a powerful call that "shame must change sides", and discuss why domestic violence work demands genuine accountability rather than weaponized shaming. Packed with practical micro-skills, Shame Resilience Theory, and ways to handle clinician imposter syndrome, this conversation is an essential guide to building real shame competence in practice.

In this episode, we cover:

• What is Shame? Core definitions, its impact on self-esteem, and why the less we talk about it, the more power it holds.

• Sorting the Emotional Spectrum: The crucial clinical distinction between “I am bad” (shame) versus “I did something bad” (guilt), plus how shame masks as anger, especially in men.

• Nathanson’s Compass of Shame: The four defensive patterns (Withdrawal, Avoidance, Attack Self, Attack Others) and how early relational trauma shapes trait shame.

• Gendered Experiences: How men and women process, internalize, or externalize shame differently under societal pressures.

• Systemic & Practice Applications: Why professional systems can accidentally act as "vectors of shame," the dangers of shaming perpetrators in domestic violence work, and why accountability must work through shame rather than weaponizing it.

• "Shame Must Change Sides": A reflection on the landmark trial of Gisèle Pelicot and the power of shifting the burden of shame from victims to perpetrators.

• Practitioner Toolkit: Micro-skills, narrative therapy techniques, Compassion-Focused Therapy (CFT), Shame Resilience Theory (SRT), and building clinician "shame competence".

Resources & Links Mentioned:

• Visit our website: relationalpracticeasocialworkpodcast.com.au to download our Ambiguous Loss printables.

• Have a practice story, question, or comment? Send us an email at Relationalpractice01@gmail.com or connect with us on Facebook, Instagram, and YouTube!

• Music by Hannah Park

• Editing by Angus Pinkstone

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