In this episode of Why Distance Learning, Seth and Allyson speak with Bobbie Sandberg — an educational researcher who recently completed her PhD in instructional psychology and technology at BYU — about what's actually happening in the household when a K-12 student learns online, and why most programs aren't designed for the answer. Bobbie's research, grounded in Jered Borup's Academic Communities of Engagement framework, reframes engagement as a three-dimensional challenge — cognitive, behavioral, and affective — that K-12 students can't sustain alone. When the school is online, the support system shifts to whoever is home. And most programs haven't reckoned with what that means.

Together, Seth, Allyson, and Bobbie explore how parents naturally divide the labor of support, why more involvement isn't the same as better involvement, and what happens when families arrive at virtual school not by choice but because nothing else worked. Bobbie also shares what she's learned about the critical first weeks of enrollment, why explicit role invitations from programs make a surprisingly big difference, and the underrated power of affective engagement — including a story about refugee mothers whose aspirational storytelling did what tutoring couldn't.

Key topics discussed:
- the three dimensions of student engagement and who owns each one
- why cognitive support from parents can actually backfire
- mooring factors and why families don't always "choose" online school
- the fire hose problem in onboarding; designing for autonomy instead of dependence
- why affective engagement might be the most underestimated variable in online learning.

Links & Resources:

• Bobbie's parent guide website: https://www.supportonlinelearning.com/parentguide.html
• Bobbie's parent assessment - HOPE survey: https://byu.az1.qualtrics.com/jfe/form/SV_7WdzYJPDpXve16K
• "Behind the Screen: Exploring Parental Roles in K-12 Online Education" (Journal of Research on Technology in Education, 2024) - https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/15391523.2024.2447729
• "Parental Support Challenges for K-12 Student Online Engagement" (Distance Education, 2024) - https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/01587919.2024.2397481
• "Choosing Virtual: Understanding the Forces that Drive Parents Toward Online K-12 Education" (Journal of School Choice, 2025) - https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/15582159.2025.2534005

Guest Bio:
Bobbie Sandberg is an educational researcher who recently completed her PhD in instructional psychology and technology at Brigham Young University. Her work focuses on parental roles in K-12 online education, with published research on how families navigate school choice, how parents construct their support roles, and where programs most commonly fail to design for the home environment. She holds a BA in linguistics and a TESOL master's certification from BYU.

About the Hosts:
Seth Fleischauer is the founder of Banyan Global Learning and host of Why Distance Learning. Through Banyan, he designs live virtual programs that connect K-12 classrooms to global peers and expert facilitators — building the kind of structured, human-centered distance learning the podcast explores. See https://banyangloballearning.com/global-learning-live/

Tami Moehring and Allyson Mitchell work with CILC, the Center for Interactive Learning and Collaboration, to help educators implement high-quality live virtual learning experiences across grade levels. Discover more at CILC.org.

This is the second of a two-part conversation with Michael Barbour, one of the most cited researchers in K-12 distance and online learning. Michael is assistant dean for academic innovation and integration at Touro University California, and has spent nearly three decades studying the design, delivery, and support of K-12 distance, online, and blended learning — as well as the policy and governance structures that shape it. If you haven't listened to part one yet, start there.

In this episode, we examine an assumption that surfaced repeatedly during the pandemic: that because distance learning has been around for decades, schools should have been ready. Michael has the data on why they weren't — and why, despite a global wake-up call, most still aren't. The numbers are striking: less than 10% of teacher preparation programs included any meaningful content on K-12 online learning even after COVID. And as Michael makes clear, the next disruption — whether pandemic, weather event, or political unrest — is not a question of if, but when.

From there, the conversation takes a surprising turn. Michael shares a counterintuitive research finding: students who had K-12 online learning experience actually performed worse as online learners at the university level — and he unpacks exactly why that happened and what it reveals about the difference between synchronous and asynchronous program design. He also walks through one of the most compelling real-world models of synchronous distance learning in K-12 — the Center for Distance Learning and Innovation in Newfoundland — and what it would actually take to replicate that kind of intentional design at scale.

"Every single one of your listeners, unless they plan on retiring in the next year or two, will likely experience another regional or global pandemic. And that's just on the pandemic side." — Michael Barbour

Topics covered:

• ~1:30 — Bridging policy, pedagogy, and technology: why hopes and prayers aren't a strategy
• ~3:20 — What the National Education Technology Plans have been saying since 1996
• ~4:20 — The teacher preparation gap: the numbers before, during, and after COVID
• ~7:20 — The history of pandemics and why every educator needs distance learning skills
• ~13:20 — A counterintuitive finding: why K-12 online experience made university online learners worse
• ~19:20 — Synchronous vs. asynchronous design and the CDLI model
• ~28:20 — Why distance learning matters for every educator, not just virtual school teachers

Links and resources:

• MichaelBarbour.com - all of Michael's research
• A Vision for K-12 Online and Blended Learning in Teacher Education — the teacher preparation work referenced in this episode
• Part 1 of this conversation is available now — start there if you haven't already.

1. Discover more virtual learning opportunities at CILC.org with hosts Tami Moehring and Allyson Mitchell.
2. Seth Fleischauer's Banyan Global Learning combines live virtual field trips with international student collaborations for a unique K12 global learning experience. See https://www.banyangloballearning.com/

This is the first of a two-part conversation with Michael Barbour, one of the most cited researchers in K-12 distance and online learning. Michael is assistant dean for academic innovation and integration at Touro University California, and has spent nearly three decades studying the design, delivery, and support of K-12 distance, online, and blended learning — as well as the policy and governance structures that shape it. His work has brought him before legislatures and policymakers around the world.

In this episode, we put a foundational assumption on the table: that research gives teachers answers. Michael makes a clear and generous case that it doesn't — and that both researchers and classroom teachers share responsibility for that misunderstanding. The distinction he draws between best practices and promising practices isn't semantic. It has real consequences for how leaders build cultures of evidence-informed decision-making, and how teachers are trained to engage with research in the first place.

From there, the conversation moves into some of the most persistent misconceptions in the field — including the idea that distance learning only works for certain types of students, and the often-overlooked role that local support plays in whether any online program succeeds or fails. Michael also challenges the assumption that face-to-face teachers have a natural engagement advantage over their online counterparts, and makes a compelling case for why the distance environment may actually offer more tools for meaningful connection — not fewer.

"The best that we can hope for in all honesty is that research might lead us to a promising practice as a starting point." — Michael Barbour

Topics covered:

• 00:00 — Michael's origin story in K-12 distance learning
• ~04:00 — Why teachers don't engage with research, and why researchers share the blame
• ~10:00 — Best practices vs. promising practices: why the distinction matters
• ~17:00 — Who distance learning actually works for
• ~21:00 — The role of local support in online program design
• ~24:00 — Engagement, belonging, and the myth of the visual cue
• ~30:00 — What "personalized learning" actually looks like in K-12 online contexts

Links and resources:

• DLAC Research Agenda Summary — referenced early in the conversation
• NEPC Newsletter: AI and Personalization in K-12 Online Learning — Michael's recent piece on what personalized learning actually means in practice
• Discover more virtual learning opportunities at CILC.org with hosts Tami Moehring and Allyson Mitchell.
• Seth Fleischauer’s Banyan Global Learning combines live virtual field trips with international student collaborations for a unique K12 global learning experience.