Mike Zisman wrote his first program in 1967. He built and sold Soft Switch to Lotus, then watched IBM take over Lotus eleven months later, going from a company of 450 people to one of 250,000 in under a year. He's 77, still writing code, and runs Golf Genius, which now handles over 40 million rounds of golf a year.

In this conversation with Lee, he explains the thing he thinks most companies never account for: coordination cost. The friction of getting people pointed in the same direction, which rises exponentially as a company grows. His head of engineering worked out that a part-time competitor was moving faster purely because he had none of it, so he went off and did the same thing, and what came back changes what they ship next.

Mike is also blunt about AI. 95% of the code his team produces is now written by Claude. His headcount has been flat for two years and there are no new hires in the 2027 plan, and he's clear that he doesn't have a good answer for what that means at scale. He also points out the trap nobody's solved: stop hiring junior developers and in ten years you have no senior ones.

Plus why he thinks vibe coding misses the point, and the line he uses on anyone who says their own software is easy to use.

Lee shares his side, including the competitor who approached him asking to sweep floors just to learn what they were doing, and what Mike makes of a 21.6x multiple when the average business sells for six or seven.

More from Mike: golfgeniussoftware.com

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