What happens when “iron sharpens iron” turns into something more damaging? Timothy Shaffer, the Stavros Niarchos Foundation Chair of Civil Discourse and director of the SNF Ithaca Initiative at the University of Delaware, recounts a tense, unexpectedly explosive thesis defense that left a student in tears and a faculty committee in conflict. The conversation explores where productive intellectual challenge crosses the line into accusation, ego, and harm. Shaffer argues that the real work of disagreement isn’t winning the argument, but cultivating the conditions where learning, dignity, and democracy can survive.

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Lori Britt, communication scholar and director of the Institute for Constructive Advocacy & Dialogue at James Madison University, shares how a deeply controversial community forum on marriage equality became a model for what productive disagreement can actually look like. From clashing colleagues and nervous speakers to media pressure and generational divides, she walks us through the hidden conflicts behind designing dialogue that doesn’t just talk at people, but invites them in. Lori argues that the real work of democracy is humanizing those across the table, not winning the argument. The result is a powerful case for curiosity, humility, and the possibility of connection in polarized times.

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Trained to resolve conflict and build bridges, Janett Cordoves, the senior program director at the Institute for Citizens and Scholars, walked into her first job believing every disagreement can be fixed. She was faced with a supervisor who was immune to every tool she learned. What started as micromanagement turned into credit-taking, control, and a painful realization that good faith alone could not save a toxic relationship. Forced to choose between endless engagement and self-respect, Janet learned the hardest lesson in civil discourse: sometimes the most ethical move is to leave. From the workplace to churches and classrooms, this episode wrestles with a radical idea: wisdom isn’t persuading everyone, but knowing when to stop trying.

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