In this episode of Verticals, Luke Sophinos and Nic Poulos sit down with Nate Baker, founder and CEO of Qualia and creator of Fractal, to unpack one of the most controversial questions in modern SaaS:

Is TAM actually too small - or are we asking the wrong question entirely?

Nate has built one of the most important systems of record in real estate, serving over 500,000 professionals, and has helped launch more than 150 vertical SaaS companies through Fractal. In this conversation, he challenges the way founders and VCs think about market size, moats, and defensibility in the age of AI.

We dive into systems of record vs point solutions, why vertical SaaS can monopolize entire markets, and how LLMs are changing what’s possible in software - not just automating work, but replacing it.

This episode is a deep, operator-level discussion on how vertical AI reshapes TAM, why speed now beats perfection, and what founders should prioritize if they’re building in regulated, complex industries.

Whether you’re a founder, operator, or investor building or backing vertical SaaS or vertical AI, this episode will fundamentally change how you think about market size, product strategy, and long-term advantage.

New episodes drop every Wednesday.

In this episode of Verticals, Luke Sophinos and Nic Poulos sit down with Scott Wolf, founder and former CEO of Levelset, to unpack what it really takes to build and exit a vertical SaaS company, including Levelset’s ~$500M acquisition by Procore.

Scott’s background is unusually eclectic: entrepreneurial roots, early software tinkering, a short stint as a lawyer, and a front-row seat to the construction ecosystem post-Hurricane Katrina , all of which collided into the insight that became Levelset. He scaled the business from a side project doing ~$200k in revenue to tens of millions in ARR, then navigated a fast, high-stakes M&A process that closed at the height of the 2021 market.

This conversation cuts through M&A mythology and focuses on operator reality: how acquirers think, how founders should think about timing and leverage, why the best companies are bought not sold, and what founders get wrong when they fixate on the same buyer segment (general contractors) in construction tech.

Whether you’re pre-product, scaling a vertical SaaS business, or simply trying to understand how real outcomes happen in construction tech, this episode offers a practical, founder-first playbook grounded in lived experience, not theory.

We cover:

• The origin story: why liens and construction payment disputes created a massive software wedge
• How Levelset went from transactional to SaaS, and what changed the growth curve
• Why selling to suppliers and subs (not GCs) created differentiation and enterprise scale contracts
• Construction tech “dead ends” and where Scott sees opportunity beyond the GC workflow
• How Procore first approached the category (and why they couldn’t build it in-house)
• What it looks like when an acquirer is “in heat”, speed, leverage, and market-making
• The founder decision: duty to stakeholders, timing the cycle, and why exits happen when they do
• Scott’s advice to founders: excellence first, M&A second

If you’re a founder, operator, or investor building or backing vertical SaaS, especially in construction or the built world, this is a must-listen guide to how great companies get built, differentiated, and ultimately acquired.

New episodes drop every Wednesday.

In this episode of Verticals, Luke Sophinos and Nic Poulos sit down with Rahul Hampel, GM & VP of FinTech at ServiceTitan, to break down what embedded finance actually looks like when it’s done right, and where most vertical SaaS founders go wrong.

Rahul has built and scaled fintech platforms at Plaid, Yelp, and now ServiceTitan. He’s seen companies 3–5x revenue per customer by layering in payments and financial products at the right moment, and others burn months building the wrong thing, too early, or for the wrong reasons.

This conversation cuts through fintech hype and focuses on real operator frameworks: when to add payments, how to think about attach rate vs take rate, why Stripe benchmarks can be misleading, and how vertical SaaS companies should sequence fintech products without losing focus.

Whether you’re pre-launch, scaling to $50M+ ARR, or debating Stripe vs Adyen vs building in-house, this episode offers a practical playbook grounded in real-world experience, not theory.

We cover:

• When it’s actually time to build payments
• The one metric that signals fintech readiness
• Realistic take rates for embedded payments (and why founders get this wrong)
• Attach rate vs usage: what really matters early
• Stripe vs Adyen vs embedded providers vs in-house builds
• How and when to expand beyond payments into lending, financing, and BNPL
• Why fintech should feel invisible — not bolted on
• Go-to-market and sales comp lessons for fintech products
• Where agentic payments and automation are headed next

If you’re a founder, operator, or investor building or backing vertical SaaS, this episode is a must-listen guide to turning fintech into a durable growth engine — without falling into common traps.

New episodes drop every Wednesday.

Episode Minutes

00:00 – Intro: Why every SaaS company becomes a fintech company 02:30 – Rahul’s background: Plaid, Yelp, and ServiceTitan 07:00 – Why vertical SaaS is uniquely positioned to win in fintech 11:30 – When founders should actually add payments 17:00 – The one metric that tells you you’re ready (attach rate vs usage) 23:00 – Real take rates vs Stripe benchmarks 29:30 – Stripe vs Adyen vs embedded providers vs in-house 36:00 – Payments as infrastructure, not a feature 41:30 – When to expand into lending, financing, and BNPL 48:00 – Go-to-market, sales comp, and fintech incentives 55:30 – Why fintech must feel invisible to customers 1:01:00 – Agentic payments, automation, and what’s coming next 1:07:00 – Final advice for vertical SaaS founders