Thought Partners S3 E2 — The Messy Middle

For the show's first four-person episode, Ed and Paul bring in a pair of thought partners: Kyle Nelson and Deb Peters, the change-management practitioners and neurodivergence coaches behind Spark and Aim. Together they rumble with the messy middle of change, the stretch after you've committed and before you've arrived, where resistance, loss and most of the real growth live, and what leaders (and one-person businesses) can do there this week.

Join the conversation: the Thought Partners Discord is where we pick the questions for the rest of Season 3.

👉 https://discord.gg/5CU3xW4AD

Timestamps
00:05 — Welcome to our first four-person episode
01:41 — Meet Kyle Nelson and Deb Peters
03:59 — Is "change management" a lie?
05:50 — Adapt, sustain, evolve: change vs. transition
10:25 — Bridges' transition model and the trapeze
12:57 — Hanging on to the bar: Paul's clients and new beginnings
15:34 — Mindset takes time (people aren't widgets)
17:48 — Why "change" lands as loss
20:15 — Kyle and Deb as thought partners: how Spark and Aim began
24:32 — What "neurodivergent" means (and "neurospicy")
29:23 — Thinking preferences and the factory model of work
34:33 — The messy middle
39:28 — What the messy middle feels like, and resistance as a signal
42:37 — A sandbox, not a mess: the growth zone
45:09 — A neurodivergent lens on change
46:29 — This week's small try: treat a mistake as a learning opportunity
51:33 — Share interview questions ahead, and "clear is kind"
53:48 — Protect your people from extra disruption
54:29 — Managing your own change as a one-person business (and naming "Bob")
57:30 — The non-negotiable: leadership support
59:16 — Informed confidence, competence and connection
1:02:58 — Where to find Kyle and Deb

This week's small tries

- Treat a mistake as a learning opportunity: ask "What did you find? How can we apply it?" instead of shaming.

- If HR allows it, share interview questions with candidates ahead of time.

- Ask of every expectation you set: is this clear? If it is, what does the behavior look like?

- In the messy middle, protect your team from piling on additional disruptions.

- Running your own show? Name your inner critic, then throw it out the door.

Our guests

Kyle Nelson is an organizational psychology practitioner, Prosci-certified change manager (APTD), and neurodivergence coach.

Deb Peters is a certified change management practitioner and professional certified coach who works with neurotypical and neurodivergent people at pivot points.

Together they run Spark and Aim Neurodivergent Coaching: https://sparkandaim.com (also on LinkedIn: Spark and Aim Neurodivergent Coaching).

Coming up
- Episode 3 (October 20): shaped by your questions in the Discord.

Hosts
Ed Buchanan & Paul Tonden

Music: "Momentum," original Thought Partners theme.

Fifteen episodes in, Ed and Paul open Season 3 by naming it: a Season of Change. They rumble with the question "When did you realize things weren't going back to normal?", why "normal" feels so comfortable, and how to have a plan for when the plan doesn't go to plan. Then Ed puts ten brand-new questions on the table, the questions that will drive the rest of the season.

**Help shape Episodes 3–7:** join the Thought Partners Discord and add or upvote a question about change by **October 13**.

👉 https://discord.gg/5CU3xW4AD

## Timestamps

00:05 — Welcome to Season 3 (episode 15!)
01:28 — "It's our quinceañera": what 15 episodes has meant
03:59 — 25 engaged listeners or 500 casual ones
05:52 — Naming it the Season of Change
08:17 — Ten years ago today: could you have predicted this?
10:41 — When did you realize things weren't going back to normal?
14:10 — Control, forecasting, and what you're carrying
17:38 — Plans, curveballs, and the Empowered Learner
20:07 — Have a plan for when the plan doesn't go to plan
22:47 — Improv, beats, and why normal feels comfortable
26:14 — Comfortable with being uncomfortable (and Ed's first day teaching)
29:44 — Process people, routine, and whether change ever ends
34:45 — Krispy Kreme, AI, and the human in the loop
38:43 — From "back to normal" to a desired future state
39:03 — Lightning round: ten questions for a Season of Change
41:43 — More than three people: the thought-partner crash
44:11 — What, who, and how you come up with a good question
46:14 — Where the questions came from
49:09 — Anything new under the sun? (and Stoic D-minus days)
51:22 — Wrap

## The ten questions (lightning round, 39:03)

1. What have you stopped waiting for?

2. What does it cost to keep treating change as an event, like the weather?

3. Who did you have to become to keep up, and do you like that person?

4. When everyone's shifting, who do you actually turn to?

5. What change did you fight the hardest that turned out to be the right call?

6. What did the last few years take from you, and what did they quietly hand you?

7. What used to be a crisis for you that's now just a Tuesday?

8. What's the one thing you refuse to change, no matter what?

9. What are you pretending to be fine with?

10. What advice about handling change do you think is just wrong?

Which one would you want us to rumble with? Tell us in the Discord: https://discord.gg/5CU3xW4AD

## Coming up

- Episode 2 (October 13): our first episode with more than three people — a thought-partner crash with Kyle Nelson and Deb Peters.

- Episodes 3–7: shaped by your questions.

## Hosts

Ed Buchanan & Paul Tonden

Music: "Momentum," original Thought Partners theme.

Season 3 is the Season of Change. Before the season proper begins, Ed and Paul set the table: why every conversation from the first two seasons kept circling back to change, the question-driven format that will carry Season 3, and the new Discord where you help decide what Episodes 3–7 are about.

Join the Discord and shape the season: https://discord.gg/5CU3xW4AD
Get your questions in by October 13.

TIMESTAMPS
00:05 Welcome to the mini-sode / episode zero / pint-sized Thought Partners
01:30 "I'm Ed." "And I'm Paul." What the show is, and why we call it our arena
02:30 Season 3 is the Season of Change: the through-line we found in Seasons 1 and 2
03:54 Every guest was living through big change, and how people wrestle with it
05:31 The first question: "Once we get through this, things go back to normal, right?"
06:50 A question-driven season, and why we don't want to write all the questions ourselves
07:22 The Discord: how you shape Episodes 3 through 7
08:36 "We may have buried the lede": the community is already forming
10:17 How to add a question, upvote one, or tell us who we should be talking to
11:08 Four starter questions, read aloud
12:18 Paul picks one: "What are you pretending to be fine with?"
13:53 What we hope the Discord becomes, and what we don't want it to be
16:41 Curiosity beats being right
18:46 The ask: questions due October 13
19:49 Take care of yourself and each other
19:55 Thought partners out

THE FOUR STARTER QUESTIONS

1. What have you stopped waiting for?
2. Who did you have to become to keep up, and do you like that person?
3. What's the one thing you refuse to change, no matter what?
4. What are you pretending to be fine with?
   Upvote one, or add your own, in the Discord.

COMING UP
Oct 6: Episode 1, "What if normal doesn't come back?"
Oct 13: Episode 2, with Kyle Nelson and Deb Peters
Episodes 3–7: shaped by your questions

Hosted by Ed Buchanan and Paul Tonden. Music: "Momentum," an original theme for Season 3.