Pen Densham's love of making images started with his father, a cameraman who made short films for British theaters. At four, Pen rode a live alligator in one of them. In this episode, Justin and Pen go back to where it started. He left school at 15 and started selling his photographs, including shots of the Rolling Stones for the BBC. At 19 he moved to Canada, where his films went on to win more than 60 international awards and two Oscar nominations. Norman Jewison was so impressed by Pen's first drama as a solo writer/director that he mentored him into Hollywood.

Pen talks about the parents who shaped him and the moral code that has guided his work. He also explains why he wrote Azeem, a Black Moorish warrior played by Morgan Freeman, into Robin Hood: Prince of Thieves. That choice changed who gets to be a hero in one of the oldest legends in the Western world. From there the conversation moves to myth and legend, why we keep retelling these stories, and who gets to tell them.

They close on Pen's new chapter. After a celebrated film career, he has turned to experimental fine art photography that captures the emotional essence of nature rather than the landscape itself. His book Qualia collects his most striking images, from swirling koi ponds to kaleidoscopic "Organic Mandalas," capturing feelings that words can't describe. businessnewsthisweekbusinessnewsthisweek

It's a conversation about legacy, courage, and creative freedom with a filmmaker who has spent his life riding the alligator.