Former NASA astronaut Charlie Camarda reveals the leadership mistake that can turn a warning sign into a catastrophe: smart people convincing themselves they already understand the problem. If you lead in a high-stakes environment, this conversation will change how you think about decision-making, dissent, and psychological safety. Michelle Johnston sits down with Charlie to unpack the seismic shifts that shaped his career, from NASA research centers to the Columbia disaster and beyond. What started as a deep technical career in hypersonic flight became a mission to understand why brilliant organizations make dangerous calls, and how to build teams that catch failure before it becomes irreversible.

Charlie shares the hard-won lessons behind Mission Out of Control, including why NASA’s recovery windows were missed for years, how bad analysis can create false confidence, and why speaking up can be career-threatening even when you’re right. He also explains how his team helped create a repair capability for shuttle damage and how that same mindset could transform industries far beyond aerospace.This episode is especially valuable for leaders, engineers, founders, safety professionals, and anyone responsible for decisions where being wrong is not an option. If you want to build teams that challenge assumptions, surface dissent, and make better calls under pressure, this one belongs at the top of your queue.

CHAPTERS
00:11 Introduction to Charlie Camarda and seismic shifts
01:04 Columbia and NASA's Culture
01:16 The Columbia accident and its impact on Charlie
02:13 Analyzing decision-making failures at NASA
03:59 The importance of technical rigor and analysis
04:41 Recovery Windows and Psychological Safety
06:08 Confirmatory vs. exploratory decision modes
07:20 Psychological safety and organizational culture
08:36 Challenger's Real Root Cause
09:31 The Challenger disaster and decision-making culture
11:38 The Columbia foam strike and recovery window
12:32 EPIC and High-Performing Teams
13:50 The Epic education program for solving complex problems
14:54 Mission Out of Control
15:55 Mission Out of Control: organizational culture and safety
18:58 NASA's safety culture and Charlie’s courageous voice
19:48 Speaking Up at NASA
21:08 Silencing and listening in high-stakes organizations
22:08 NASA’s ongoing culture challenges and Charlie’s advocacy
22:41 Artemis and Heat Shield Risks
24:14 The Artemis missions and transparency issues
26:29 Lessons on decision-making and risk management in space
28:28 Leadership: Listen to Dissent
30:01 The Legacy of Safer Organizations
32:14 A Critical Decision in Space
33:33 The overview effect and critical in-space decisions
35:15 The importance of leadership and listening in space missions
36:09 Final thoughts: culture, safety, and seismic shifts
36:22 Navigating NASA's Challenges

Special thanks to our friend Brian Wayy for the theme music this season!
Track Title: My Heart's On Fire

Follow Michelle for more inspiring content:

Watch the podcast on YouTube: / @theseismicshiftwithmichelle
LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/michelle-johnston-0264b5b
Instagram: instagram.com/michellekjohnston
Website: https://michellekjohnston.com/

Lucy Bustamante is a multi-Emmy and Edward R. Murrow Award-winning journalist, born and raised in New Orleans, now serving as a morning anchor at FOX 8. She joins Michelle Johnston for a heartfelt conversation about connection, culture, leadership, and what it means to stay real in a rapidly changing world. From covering Hurricane Katrina as a young journalist to returning home to New Orleans after years away, Lucy reflects on the power of authenticity, the pull of family, and the beauty of a city that begins every relationship with humanity. She also shares what seismic shifts she is seeing in media and the workplace, including AI, streaming, social media, and trust. The conversation is honest, lively, and full of wisdom about relationships, resilience, and choosing what matters most.

CHAPTERS:
00:00 Welcome and introducing Lucy Bustamante
00:31 Michelle shares how she knew Lucy had to be on the show
01:23 Lucy’s career, awards, and return to New Orleans
01:51 Covering Hurricane Katrina and staying on air
04:15 Why Lucy’s reporting felt like home
05:05 New Orleans and the power of authenticity
06:56 Michelle on why she fell in love with New Orleans
09:18 Lucy’s family story and New Orleans roots
12:35 What brought Lucy back home
15:56 Raising children in New Orleans
18:52 Why New Orleans is worth investing in
20:05 Michelle’s daughter chooses to come back to New Orleans
23:40 The seismic shifts Lucy sees in media and work
24:04 AI and how Gray Media is approaching it
25:08 Streaming and changing audience habits
25:37 Social media, trust, and misinformation
28:31 What leaders need to understand right now
29:13 Lucy’s unforgettable leadership advice
30:34 Choosing the right partner, therapist, and lawyer
31:04 Closing reflections and thanks

Special thanks to our friend Brian Wayy for the theme music this season!
Track Title: My Heart's On Fire

Follow Michelle for more inspiring content:

Watch the podcast on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@TheSeismicShiftwithMichelle
LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/michelle-johnston-0264b5b
Instagram: instagram.com/michellekjohnston
Website: https://michellekjohnston.com/

Jim Lager is an executive leader at Penske Truck Leasing and he joins Michelle Johnston for a conversation that feels equal parts leadership masterclass and reunion. Jim brings a rare combination of humility, warmth, and practical leadership wisdom to this episode of The Seismic Shift. In a conversation rooted in longtime friendship, he and Michelle Johnston explore how connection, curiosity, and authenticity can shape not only a career, but an entire life.

This episode is packed with grounded advice for anyone who wants to grow as a leader without losing themselves in the process. Jim’s message is simple, but powerful: be yourself, stay curious, listen well, and never underestimate the value of treating people with genuine respect.

CHAPTERS:
00:00 Welcome and introducing Jim Lager
00:40 Auburn memories and the Jazz Fest trip
02:15 How connection shaped lifelong friendship
03:18 Jim’s natural gift for people and relationships
04:08 The influence of his mother and early hardship
06:10 Why he has always been fascinated by people’s stories
08:18 Listening as a leadership and sales advantage
11:12 Roger Penske and the idea that there are no big shots
12:00 Why command and control does not work anymore
13:12 What has changed about younger workers
15:20 Why today’s workers want balance and collaboration
16:40 Connection in virtual meetings and leading through Zoom
18:24 Using technology without losing human connection
20:22 Productivity without connection creates emptiness
21:47 Owning your calendar and protecting time to think
24:00 Why in-person training still matters
26:24 The seismic shifts Jim sees in business today
27:15 Using technology as a tool, not a replacement
28:01 The leadership mistake that changed everything
29:52 Why authenticity is the real key to trust
30:47 Closing reflections and thanks

Special thanks to our friend Brian Wayy for the theme music this season!
Track Title: My Heart's On Fire

Follow Michelle for more inspiring content:

Watch the podcast on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@TheSeismicShiftwithMichelle
LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/michelle-johnston-0264b5b
Instagram: instagram.com/michellekjohnston
Website: https://michellekjohnston.com/