Thought Partners S3 E2 — The Messy Middle

For the show's first four-person episode, Ed and Paul bring in a pair of thought partners: Kyle Nelson and Deb Peters, the change-management practitioners and neurodivergence coaches behind Spark and Aim. Together they rumble with the messy middle of change, the stretch after you've committed and before you've arrived, where resistance, loss and most of the real growth live, and what leaders (and one-person businesses) can do there this week.

Join the conversation: the Thought Partners Discord is where we pick the questions for the rest of Season 3.

👉 https://discord.gg/5CU3xW4AD

Timestamps
00:05 — Welcome to our first four-person episode
01:41 — Meet Kyle Nelson and Deb Peters
03:59 — Is "change management" a lie?
05:50 — Adapt, sustain, evolve: change vs. transition
10:25 — Bridges' transition model and the trapeze
12:57 — Hanging on to the bar: Paul's clients and new beginnings
15:34 — Mindset takes time (people aren't widgets)
17:48 — Why "change" lands as loss
20:15 — Kyle and Deb as thought partners: how Spark and Aim began
24:32 — What "neurodivergent" means (and "neurospicy")
29:23 — Thinking preferences and the factory model of work
34:33 — The messy middle
39:28 — What the messy middle feels like, and resistance as a signal
42:37 — A sandbox, not a mess: the growth zone
45:09 — A neurodivergent lens on change
46:29 — This week's small try: treat a mistake as a learning opportunity
51:33 — Share interview questions ahead, and "clear is kind"
53:48 — Protect your people from extra disruption
54:29 — Managing your own change as a one-person business (and naming "Bob")
57:30 — The non-negotiable: leadership support
59:16 — Informed confidence, competence and connection
1:02:58 — Where to find Kyle and Deb

This week's small tries

- Treat a mistake as a learning opportunity: ask "What did you find? How can we apply it?" instead of shaming.

- If HR allows it, share interview questions with candidates ahead of time.

- Ask of every expectation you set: is this clear? If it is, what does the behavior look like?

- In the messy middle, protect your team from piling on additional disruptions.

- Running your own show? Name your inner critic, then throw it out the door.

Our guests

Kyle Nelson is an organizational psychology practitioner, Prosci-certified change manager (APTD), and neurodivergence coach.

Deb Peters is a certified change management practitioner and professional certified coach who works with neurotypical and neurodivergent people at pivot points.

Together they run Spark and Aim Neurodivergent Coaching: https://sparkandaim.com (also on LinkedIn: Spark and Aim Neurodivergent Coaching).

Coming up
- Episode 3 (October 20): shaped by your questions in the Discord.

Hosts
Ed Buchanan & Paul Tonden

Music: "Momentum," original Thought Partners theme.