Christine Caine on why the "victim narrative" is destroying a generation—and what the real gospel actually says.

In this conversation, Pastor Greg Laurie sits down with Christine Caine (founder of A21, evangelist, author) for a wide-ranging talk about faith, calling, and the fight against human trafficking.

What we cover:
• Finding out at 33 she was adopted—and how a decade of renewing her mind with Scripture prepared her for that moment
• Childhood abuse, shame, and why "despite" is the real language of the gospel
• Why she believes evangelism is the most unwanted job in the 21st-century church
• Running A21 across 22 countries and what she's learned on the front lines
• 30 years of marriage, 260+ hotel nights a year, and building a life around purpose
• The hardest prayer she's ever prayed
• Why Jesus is coming back—and what that should change about how we live today
• Numbering your days: the practice she started at 22 that still shapes her life

Two evangelists, one long conversation, plenty of laughter along the way.

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Timestamps

00:16 The one-night stand and the plan of God

01:54 A phone call reveals the family secret

06:29 Renewing the mind before the storm hits

10:14 Making pain a tool, not a prison

14:17 Redemption is "despite," not "if only"

18:44 Losing a son and the resurrection witness

22:53 What Jesus did is bigger than what was done to you

29:33 Preaching to the back row, not the front row

34:06 Why eschatology still matters

41:26 The hardest prayer: getting the "want" back

46:28 Marriage built on purpose and the fruit of the Spirit

01:07:12 J. John and the power of another cup of coffee

01:12:03 Numbering your days from age 22

01:17:15 Three questions from Eden for the unwanted

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Michael W. Smith almost died of a drug overdose at 17. He'd been a Jesus freak at 13, then lost his way. What brought him back was a night on the linoleum floor of a Nashville apartment, alone, sensing God next to him saying, "It's going to be okay."

In this conversation, Michael sits down with Greg Laurie to talk about the moments that shaped him — and the ones most people never hear about.
What we cover:
• Walking into a record store at 13 and finding Christian music for the first time
• The prodigal years from '75 to '79, and what pulled him back
• Late-night visits with Billy Graham in Montreat — and praying for Billy at the end
• Meeting Presidents Bush, Reagan, and playing tennis in Kennebunkport
• Rocketown, Nashville — why he built it and what's happening there now
• His goal of never being offended again
• Marriage, mentorship, and staying grounded after 43 years in the industry
• Johnny Cash, John Williams, and the perfect pizza

A conversation about faith that held, a father who never gave up, and a life still being written.

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Timestamps
00:19 Meeting Michael W. Smith
01:26 Discovering Jesus music at 13
03:24 Coming to Christ at age 10
04:26 The prodigal years and near-fatal overdose
06:16 Rock bottom and God's embrace
09:38 Breaking into music through Amy Grant
10:52 Working with Billy Graham
13:30 Personal visits with Billy at Montreat
17:07 Friendship with the Bush family
23:47 The Rick Rubin interview and Johnny Cash
27:13 State of Christian music today
29:22 Secrets to a lasting marriage
36:50 The origin of Rocketown
40:37 Rocketown's ongoing impact

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In part two of this conversation with Pastor Greg Laurie, Pastor Chuck Swindoll opens up about what he'd do differently across six decades of ministry—chief among them, saying yes sooner, affirming more, criticizing less, and bringing his wife Cynthia into full partnership years before he actually did.

He names the four temptations every pastor faces and explains why the last one never stops requiring vigilance. Pastor Greg asks what text Chuck would preach if he had one sermon left, and the answer will surprise you. Along the way: memorized hymns, mentors from Dallas Seminary, the rise of antisemitism, and a tender word about caring for Cynthia through dementia. This conversation closes with Chuck's prayer over Pastor Greg's family and ministry.

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Timestamps
00:33 Intro: one last sermon
01:03 Preaching after losing his son
02:38 Fearing for his other children
04:03 Preaching to himself through grief
05:35 Any regrets looking back?
07:06 Chuck: say yes sooner, affirm more
10:00 Nearly ruining his marriage with Cynthia
14:50 Loneliness in ministry
15:27 Four temptations: sloth, silver, self, sex
22:30 The final sermon: grace
24:35 Lightning round: food, movies, Lincoln
29:38 The rise of antisemitism
30:11 Hymns he sings while driving
32:36 Sitting under giants at Dallas Seminary
38:28 Cynthia's dementia and advice on marriage

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