The Great Careers Program copertina

The Great Careers Program

The Great Careers Program

Di: Liv Pennie and Marian Wright
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You know that one great careers program your school has been searching for? The one that will prepare your students for the future, solve your engagement problems and finally show students there's a point to all this learning they're doing?


That one single solution was never going to come in a box. It can't be handed to one person, and it definitely isn't something that starts in Year 10. A great careers program is not something you find on a shelf. It is something you build into the conditions and architecture of the way you do schooling.


Marian Wright is a systems thinker working at the intersection of school design and student futures through Coherence Co-Lab. Liv Pennie is the CEO and Co-Founder of BECOME Education and genuinely optimistic about what young people are capable of when schools design the right conditions. Each episode they tackle one big question, dig into the evidence, and leave you with something you can actually use.


This is a show for the entire school staff room. Because preparing young people for their futures was never just one person's job.

© 2026 The Great Careers Program
Episodi
  • Episode 5: What if we have more freedom in schools than we think?

    Episode 5: What if we have more freedom in schools than we think?
    Oct 19 2026
    What if the way we designed career education wasn't just through a lens of “what works”, but “what might work here”. The “here” makes it about context. The “might” makes it an experiment - something that is crucial to how we design schooling for student futures. In this episode, Liv and Marian talk with Professor Glenn Savage, Professor of Education Futures at the University of Melbourne and author of The Quest for Revolution in Australian Schooling Policy. Glenn was the 15 year old in punk bands asking his teachers why they were learning any of this. He is now a policy sociologist who spends his time on the frontline of how policy gets made, and how schools enact it. We get into:How we should see schools as possibility architectures. They open up certain futures for young people and close down others, and they shape what students believe they can become.The difference between direction and destination, and why asking a 15 year old to choose what they will be is an impoverished way to prepare them for an uncertain future.Why a policy mandate isn’t necessarily the answer to all our career education problems. NAPLAN gets attention because of its accountability stakes, but not every priority can or should carry that weight, so the rest has to win hearts and minds.Why the future of schooling, at least according to the OECD's Flourishing Futures work, is moving away from the 'human capital' logic, which means it's more about living better lives than building skills for the economy. How school leaders can find more freedom than they think, even inside increasingly prescriptive and compliance driven systems.And in this episode's I Didn’t Know That Was a Thing, Glenn brings the mystery job of the person who presses the button for Wharfie Time at the Fremantle Dockers. Turns out there's a few jobs in sport that require the very important job of pushing buttons. We finish with a quick fire round, including the one thing Glenn thinks we should focus our productive rage on: learning how to be misbehaved without getting yourself into trouble.Links to Glenn’s book, his writing for The Conversation and his university profile are in the show notes.Learn more about Glenn and his workProfessor Glenn Savage, University of Melbourne: https://findanexpert.unimelb.edu.au/profile/197905-glenn-savageResearchGate: https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Glenn-SavageThe Conversation author page: https://theconversation.com/profiles/glenn-savage-102699The Quest for Revolution in Australian Schooling Policy (Routledge, 2021): https://www.routledge.com/The-Quest-for-Revolution-in-Australian-Schooling-Policy/Savage/p/book/9781003141792The books we mentionedSeeing Like a State, James C. Scott: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seeing_Like_a_StateThe Allure of Order, Jal Mehta: https://academic.oup.com/book/40930Rebel Ideas, Matthew Syed: https://www.hachette.co.uk/titles/matthew-syed/rebel-ideas/9781473613942/Reports and organisations mentionedOECD, Education for Human Flourishing: https://www.oecd.org/en/publications/2025/11/education-for-human-flourishing_cb043494.htmlWorld Economic Forum, The Future of Jobs Report 2025: https://www.weforum.org/publications/the-future-of-jobs-report-2025/Amplify Music Education: https://amplifymusiceducation.com.auGet in touchFind us on Instagram @thegreatcareersprogram and on Substack at thegreatcareersprogram.substack.com for episode recaps, research links, and the conversation between episodes. Got a question, a story, or something you want us to talk about? Email us at hi@thegreatcareersprogram.com.CreditsThe Great Careers Program is a collaboration between BECOME Education and Coherence Co-Lab, and is hosted and produced by Liv Pennie and Marian Wright, with production support from Bev Laing. Music by Chad Crouch.
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    1 ora e 2 min
  • Episode 4: How do we get leadership to see this is a gap? + More questions from you.

    Episode 4: How do we get leadership to see this is a gap? + More questions from you.
    Sep 16 2026

    Liv and Marian are back with an Ask Us Anything Episode, answering questions from people who are on the ground in schools and universities. No guest, no script, unfiltered and real.

    We've got questions about whether career uncertainty is helpful, whether AI career tools have any benefits, how wellbeing and futures connect, how to be strategic in working with school leadership, and more.

    And this episodes's "I Didn't Know This Was a Thing" is about someone who prices financial products using something called stochastic calculus. I know. We didn't know it was a thing either.

    Mentioned in this episode:

    OECD (2025), The State of Global Teenage Career Preparation — https://www.oecd.org/en/publications/the-state-of-global-teenage-career-preparation_d5f8e3f2-en.html

    OECD Career Readiness Project — https://www.oecd.org/en/about/projects/career-readiness.html

    SELCE model, myfuture Insights — https://myfuture.edu.au/docs/default-source/insights/time_for_a_holistic_perspective_of_career_development.pdf

    Longpath by Ari Wallach — https://www.longpath.org/book

    Brene Brown, Dare to Lead, "generous interpretation" — https://brenebrown.com/book/dare-to-lead/

    C.R. Snyder, Hope Theory — https://positivepsychology.com/hope-theory/

    Get in touch

    Find us on Instagram @thegreatcareersprogram and on Substack at thegreatcareersprogram.substack.com for episode recaps, research links, and the conversation between episodes. Got a question, a story, or something you want us to talk about? Email us at hi@thegreatcareersprogram.com.

    Credits

    The Great Careers Program is a collaboration between BECOME Education and Coherence Co-Lab, and is hosted and produced by Liv Pennie and Marian Wright, with production support from Bev Laing. Music by Chad Crouch.
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    42 min
  • One more thing! Are entry level jobs disappearing? Chris Webb says there's more to the story.

    One more thing! Are entry level jobs disappearing? Chris Webb says there's more to the story.
    Aug 24 2026

    Liv and Marian have a lot to say. One More Thing is where the overflow goes.

    This one is from Episode 3, continuing the conversation with Chris Webb.

    If you're a graduate right now, applying into a pool of a thousand candidates for one role, it's easy to feel like the whole system is broken. Chris's advice: before you accept that story, ask how do you actually know it's true? He walks through what the UK's own graduate outcomes data is really showing (hint: it's messier and more hopeful than the headlines), why talent pipelines matter more than most people realise, and why liberal arts and interdisciplinary thinking might be due for a comeback.

    Mentioned in this episode:

    • World Economic Forum, Future of Jobs Report → weforum.org/publications/the-future-of-jobs-report-2025
    • London Interdisciplinary School (LIS) → lis.ac.uk
    • Institute of Student Employers (ISE) → ise.org.uk

    Get in touch

    Find us on Instagram @thegreatcareersprogram and on Substack at thegreatcareersprogram.substack.com for episode recaps, research links, and the conversation between episodes. Got a question, a story, or something you want us to talk about? Email us at hi@thegreatcareersprogram.com.

    Credits

    The Great Careers Program is a collaboration between BECOME Education and Coherence Co-Lab, and is hosted and produced by Liv Pennie and Marian Wright, with production support from Bev Laing. Music by Chad Crouch.
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    16 min
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