This week, Rachel and Lynne chat with Jo Butler about switching careers from book publishing to marketing and communications at the University of Sydney.

Jo shares her journey of nearly 30 years as a book editor, publisher and literary agent, and explains why she wanted a new challenge, as well as the appeal of more stable income and working with colleagues again.

She discusses:

• how publishing has changed over the decades

• what she misses about editing

• what she wishes authors understood about publishing

• why comms still feels like storytelling, and how her skills feel more appreciated in a university environment

• how she mapped her transferable skills for the move

• key skills for comms roles

• what her week looks like in internal communications

• the learning curve in university comms

• her ongoing connection to publishing through teaching in the Masters of Publishing program, and what she covers

• the 'hard truths' she shares with students

• AI in publishing

Connect with Jo via LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jo-butler-bishops/

Read her blog on Rachel's List about book editing here: https://rachelslist.com.au/so-you-think-you-can-be-a-book-editor/

Find Lynne www.lynnetestoni.com

Find Rachel www.rachelsmith.com.au

Rachel's List www.rachelslist.com.au

Thanks (as always) to our sponsors Rounded (www.rounded.com.au), an easy invoicing and accounting solution that helps freelancers run their businesses with confidence. Looking to take advantage of the discount for Rachel's List Gold Members? Email us at: hello@rachelslist.com.au for the details.

Episode edited by Marker Creative Co www.markercreative.co

This week Rachel and Lynne chat with psychologist Sabina Read about catastrophising, perfectionism and the freelance stress spiral.

Sabina explains catastrophising as a cognitive distortion where we jump to the worst-case scenario and treat thoughts as facts, and why it can show up more in freelancing due to a lack of workplace "guardrails" such as regular income and employer support.

They discuss:

• the difference between genuine, evidence-based concerns (like fewer jobs or more competition) and catastrophising
• how scarcity vs abundance mindsets influence freelance anxiety
• why perfectionism fuels anxiety, and why "good enough is good enough"
• how the brain reinforces threat-focused neural pathways – and how to build new ones by noticing what's working
• practical circuit breakers and using breath to come down from fight-or-flight before making decisions
• how avoidance fuels fear, and how resilience is built by tolerating discomfort without over-attaching to outcomes
• being discerning with social media and algorithm-driven negativity
• clarifying what you want to move toward (not just what you want to escape), and the power of saying no to misaligned work

Find Sabina at sabinareadpsychology.com.au

She also hosts the Human Cogs podcast, https://podcasts.apple.com/au/podcast/human-cogs-podcast/id1525840415 and The Separation Guide Podcast https://podcasts.apple.com/au/podcast/the-separation-guide-a-starting-point-for/id1542151561

Find Lynne www.lynnetestoni.com

Find Rachel www.rachelsmith.com.au

Rachel's List www.rachelslist.com.au

Thanks (as always) to our sponsors Rounded (www.rounded.com.au), an easy invoicing and accounting solution that helps freelancers run their businesses with confidence. Looking to take advantage of the discount for Rachel's List Gold Members? Email us at: hello@rachelslist.com.au for the details.

Episode edited by Marker Creative Co www.markercreative.co

This week on the podcast, Rachel and Lynne talk to Phoebe Hartley about her creative journey from filmmaking to journalism, and now to launching her own print magazine, Billy.

Phoebe shares insights on:

• the challenges of career reinvention
• transitioning from film to journalism
• launching and running a local magazine
• balancing work and family life in a rural setting
• and the value of community support and collaboration

Listen in for tips on creative flexibility, managing imposter syndrome, and navigating the evolving freelance landscape.

Connect with Phoebe via www.billypress.com or www.phoebehartley.com

www.instagram.com/billypress_/

Find Lynne www.lynnetestoni.com

Find Rachel www.rachelsmith.com.au

Rachel's List www.rachelslist.com.au

Thanks (as always) to our sponsors Rounded (www.rounded.com.au), an easy invoicing and accounting solution that helps freelancers run their businesses with confidence. Looking to take advantage of the discount for Rachel's List Gold Members? Email us at: hello@rachelslist.com.au for the details.

Episode edited by Marker Creative Co www.markercreative.co