In our tenth episode, Stephen Baker and Aaron Prelock sit down to talk about counseling and what happened to the care of souls. Pastors did that work for centuries, Gregory the Great to Baxter, until Freud arrived, the experts took over, and pastors learned to say we don't go there. In the seventies Jay Adams burst on the scene like Moses with thunder and flame and beard. They talk about why Adams had a first-generation reformer's zeal and defects, why his movement split into a world better at theology and a world better at practice, and why the counseling centers became the new medical model he set out to fight, a certified professional class you trust instead of your pastor. Aaron finished seminary convinced there was nothing me and my Bible could not fix. Ministry taught him otherwise: some bones do not get fully healed, and there is always going to be a limp.

00:08 — What I wish they'd told me about counseling
01:48 — Pastoral care before the word: the Reformation and the Puritans
05:05 — Freud arrives and the church outsources the care of souls
07:51 — We don't go there: pastors from the 1950s to the 70s
08:24 — Jay Adams bursts on the scene
12:02 — Psychologists, the sworn enemies of guilt
14:10 — Baxter's Christian Directory
18:29 — The second generation: Welch's critique of Adams, Powlison
22:23 — Two worlds: NANC/ACBC and CCEF
24:31 — The first rule of biblical counseling: stop feeling
30:38 — Keller, idolatry of the heart, and losing the imperative
37:12 — Do you do counseling? What the word means now
38:40 — The counseling center as emergency room
41:18 — Trust the professionals, not the pastor
45:01 — Exegeting the Bible, exegeting the sheep
47:40 — Lives that will not change; some bones don't get fully healed
51:18 — The place of medication; wine for a dying man
57:42 — The psychosomatic whole
60:24 — Sanctifying mind, will, and affections
61:27 — Next time: training pastors in the church