Jerry, Sounil, and Mario debate what happens when attackers can move from vulnerable data centers to everyday devices—and whether defenders can ever patch their way out of the problem.

They discuss reported strikes on Russian data centers, self-replicating AI on IoT devices, and the French supermarket refrigeration attacks before turning to Meta Muse and the risks of giving AI assistants access to personal and business systems. Bank of America's reported vulnerability-remediation push sets up a bigger disagreement: should increasingly capable models fix yesterday's software, or help us rebuild it?

Stories and resources

Yandex data center strikes — Le Monde

Self-replicating AI on IoT devices — Anthropic

French supermarket refrigeration attacks — BleepingComputer

Meta Muse and private messages — Jason Aten, Inc.

Bank of America’s Mythos remediation effort — IT Pro

Google’s open-source bug-bounty pause — TechCrunch

Chapters

00:00 Opening

00:24 Welcome and upcoming events

01:52 Russian data centers and critical infrastructure

03:50 Self-replicating AI and adaptive worms

09:27 IoT exposure and ISP defenses

11:51 French supermarket refrigeration attacks

17:20 Security products versus reducing exposure

19:18 Meta Muse and the AI assistant trust problem

24:09 Notification leakage and limits on agent access

28:30 Content policies and AI use by children

30:08 Bank of America and the remediation backlog

34:20 Bug bounties and the economics of finding flaws

35:31 Patch the application or rebuild it?

41:40 Where AI security investment should go

44:57 Process knowledge and model-specific workflows

48:33 Descriptive versus prescriptive guidance

51:12 Standards, diversity, and software complexity

57:25 Continuous rebuilding versus code freezes

59:43 Wrap-up

Hosts:

Jerry Perullo (Founder, https://adversarial.com/)

Sounil Yu (Founder, https://www.knostic.ai/)

Mario Duarte (CISO, https://www.whirlai.com/)

Producer: Tillson Galloway (Founder, http://githoundexplore.com/)

Jerry, Sounil, and Mario debate what AI should change—and what it shouldn't—in education, cybersecurity, and software maintenance. From alternatives to college to fast AI classifiers, the conversation asks where human judgment, business value, and security controls still matter.

In this episode:

• AI academies and education: The hosts discuss the Andreessen Horowitz academy, the value of elite networks, and how students can use AI while still learning to reason and evaluate code.

• Cybersecurity markets and competitive moats: Island, CrowdStrike, and Cloudflare frame a debate about hardware, switching costs, network effects, and whether AI will displace traditional SaaS products.

• Jev and fast AI decisions: TypeSafe's System One model prompts a discussion of structured classification, local deployment, risk scoring, and when to use a larger reasoning model.

• Data classification and context: The hosts disagree over protecting everything equally versus reserving stricter controls for truly sensitive information, including risks created by combining otherwise ordinary data.

• Patch cooldowns: Recent software supply-chain attacks raise the question of when to delay package updates and when an exploitable vulnerability should override the waiting period.

Chapters

00:00 Cold open and introductions

01:52 AI startups, hardware, and manufacturing

04:40 AI academies and the future of education

24:51 Cybersecurity markets and competitive moats

37:22 Jev, System One models, and data classification

51:36 Risk scoring and fast versus slow AI

56:00 Patch cooldowns and security exceptions

1:04:49 Wrap-up and upcoming events

Hosts:

Jerry Perullo (Founder, https://adversarial.com/)

Sounil Yu (Founder, https://www.knostic.ai/)

Mario Duarte (CISO, https://www.whirlai.com/)

Producer: Tillson Galloway (Founder, http://githoundexplore.com/)

Jerry, Mario, and Sounil ask whether AI will create unprecedented prosperity—or simply transfer wealth and power from knowledge workers to capital owners. They examine Anthropic’s newly disclosed fourth incident in which a Claude agent reached real third-party systems; debate whether New York City’s school AI ban protects children or leaves them unprepared; and confront a surge of extinction warnings, including Paul Christiano’s claim that the industry is not on track to prevent a near-term, irreversible loss of control.

Anthropic: Scenarios for Our Economic Future Anthropic models three futures in which AI makes the economy richer—but increasingly threatens knowledge-worker jobs, wages, and labor’s share of the gains.

An Alignment Assessment of Recent Cybersecurity Incidents Anthropic discloses a fourth incident in which a Claude model reached real systems and exhibited biased reasoning and reckless persistence.

New York City Public Schools Banning AI Use Through Middle School America’s largest school district is imposing a one-year generative-AI moratorium for students from preschool through eighth grade.

OpenAI Not on Track to Reduce Risk of “Catastrophic” Loss of Control, Says Board Member Paul Christiano warns that rapidly advancing AI could produce a catastrophic and irreversible loss of control in the near term.

Hosts:

Jerry Perullo (Founder, https://adversarial.com/)

Sounil Yu (Founder, https://www.knostic.ai/)

Mario Duarte (CISO, https://www.whirlai.com/)

Producer: Tillson Galloway (Founder, http://githoundexplore.com/)