In this episode, Kristin Mockler Young and I talk about The Other Side of Certainty and what it means to grow from certainty into something with more nuance. We discuss the four walls of religious certainty (authority, fear, conformity, and obligation) and what each one promises but can’t deliver. We get into the difference between repenting and simply growing up in faith, why Jesus has to remain the head, and how to stay in relationship with people who see the world in black and white. Kristin talks about the friendships she lost, lament as an antidote to cynicism, and letting go of the need to change anyone’s mind.

Kristin Mockler Young is a teaching pastor at Mosaic Church and host of the Becoming Church podcast. Through her teaching, podcast, and Turning the Gem Substack, Kristin encourages curiosity over certainty and helps people discover God in unexpected places.

Kristin's Book:

The Other Side of Certainty

Kristin's Recommendations:

Anxious People

The Road to Tender Hearts

Connect with Joshua: jjohnson@shiftingculturepodcast.com

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In this episode, Chuck DeGroat joins me to talk about how people actually change. We talk about how therapy language and spiritual practices can become performance, and why so much of our formation sits on top of anxious, dysregulated bodies. Chuck walks through the four conditions for maturing: safety, an elder, community, and a sacred story. We also explore integrity as wholeheartedness rather than moral perfection, the slow work of discernment, and what it means to stay rooted in a place. We ask why transformation so often runs through the wilderness, and how character is formed slowly, rarely the way we expect.

Chuck DeGroat is a professor of pastoral care and Christian spirituality at Western Theological Seminary in Holland, Michigan, where he also serves as founding executive director of the clinical mental health counseling program. He is a licensed therapist, spiritual director, author, retreat leader, and founder of the Soul Care Collaborative, a network of practitioners offering spiritually attuned and trauma-informed care. As a therapist, he specializes in navigating issues of abuse and trauma, pastoral (and leadership) health, and doubt and dark nights on the faith journey. He and his team also facilitate five-day soul care intensives. He trains clergy in handling issues of abuse and trauma, and he conducts pastor and planter assessments. Before transitioning to training and forming pastors, Chuck served as a pastor and counseling center director in Orlando and San Francisco. He and his wife, Sara, have two married daughters. Visit Chuck online at chuckdegroat.net and soulcarecollaborative.com.

Chuck's Book:

Who You're Becoming

Connect with Joshua: jjohnson@shiftingculturepodcast.com

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In this episode, Matthew Kaemingk joins me to talk about Can Religion Save Democracy?, the book he co-wrote with Shadi Hamid. As religious participation in America has declined, our politics has become more apocalyptic, and Matthew argues that's no coincidence: when we stop looking to faith for meaning, we start looking to politics. We talk about political idolatry, congregations as training grounds for democracy, prayer as civic formation, and why our culture knows how to cancel people but has no language for atonement. Disagreement isn't going anywhere. The question is what kind of people it makes us.

Matthew Kaemingk (PhD, Vrije Universiteit Amsterdam) is professor of public theology at Theological University Utrecht, a senior fellow at Georgetown University's Center for Muslim-Christian Understanding. He is the author of Christian Hospitality and Muslim Immigration in an Age of Fear.

Matthew's Book:

Can Religion Save Democracy?

Connect with Joshua: jjohnson@shiftingculturepodcast.com

Go to www.shiftingculturepodcast.com to interact and donate. Every donation helps to produce more podcasts for you to enjoy.

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