If you’ve ever wondered whether recovery can feel more practical, more flexible, and more grounded in science, this conversation opens that door. We sit down with SMART Recovery’s executive director, Pete Rubiness, to explore a peer-led model that pairs individual agency with supportive community - without sponsors, required labels, or prescribed beliefs.

Pete Rubinas shares his path from participant to facilitator to director, then takes us inside a typical SMART meeting: clear guidelines, honest check-ins, crosstalk that invites dialogue, and tool-driven conversations rooted in CBT and motivational interviewing. We dig into the Four-Point Program and the Family & Friends handbook, why writing things down reduces self-deception, and how participants use practical worksheets to make real changes between meetings. If you’re earlier in the stages of change, you’ll hear how SMART welcomes varied goals—abstinence, moderation, or harm reduction - and respects your right to change your mind as you learn.

We also widen the lens beyond alcohol and drugs. Because SMART is behavioral, the same tools apply to challenges like overeating, pornography, or workaholism. That mix helps people see shared patterns and feel less alone, supported by self-compassion and mindfulness instead of shame. Pete explains SMART’s rapid growth, the rise of online and affinity meetings (including daily options for veterans and first responders), and partnerships with treatment programs and peer recovery specialists who champion multiple pathways. Throughout, we return to a simple idea: people do better when you offer real choices, clear tools, and a community where change feels possible.

Ready to explore another pathway or add something new? Listen now, then try an online meeting, grab the handbook, and tell us what resonates. If this conversation helped, subscribe, share it with someone who needs hope, and leave a quick review to help others find the show.

Other useful links from Brett:

• Sober Curious Consulting - Brett's Recovery Friendly Workplace consulting business.
• How Recovery Friendly is Your Workplace Quiz - 3-min quiz where you learn a lot.
• Brett's YouTube channel
• Washington Recovery Alliance - building the capacity of the recovery community to advance substance use recovery and mental health wellness by catalyzing public understanding and shaping public policy in Washington State.
• Recovery-Ready Workplace Toolkit - providing information, tools, and resources to help employers from all sectors—government, for-profit, non-profit, and not-for-profit—effectively prevent and respond to substance misuse in the workforce from the Department of Labor.
• Data on SUD in the US (2024) - from SAMHSA (Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration). Link to my favorite PDF for statistics.
• Understand Substance Use Disorders and Stigma (1 hour video) - learn about the brain science behind substance use disorders and ...