Episodi

  • The Superpower of Starting from Zero

    The Superpower of Starting from Zero
    Apr 23 2026

    In this episode of Raising Men, host Shaun Dawson reflects on a powerful conversation with Deland McCullough. Shaun shares a poignant story about a young entrepreneur in Chicago who built a thriving barbershop but nearly lost everything because he lacked a permit—and, more importantly, because his "default mindset" told him the world was designed to take his success away. This narrative serves as a backdrop to explore the resilient spirit of Deland who faced NFL-ending injuries only to rebuild his life as a coach. Shaun discusses the critical role parents play in teaching their sons two vital lessons: that they are worthy of the fruits of their success and that they must not fear starting from scratch. It is a deep dive into how we can instill the "superpower" of resilience in the next generation.

    Key Takeaways

    • Mindset Dictates Success: A "default mindset" of defeatism can cause individuals to give up on their goals when faced with obstacles they don't understand.
    • The Power of Rebuilding: True resilience is the ability to start from zero and reach "unimaginable heights" regardless of previous setbacks.
    • Worthiness of Success: Parents must ensure their children feel worthy of life’s challenges and the rewards that come from surmounting them.
    • The Risk of Starting Over: Success requires a willingness to risk what one currently has to achieve something greater, including the courage to ask for raises or start businesses.
    • Fighting for What is Yours: Children should be taught to "fight tooth and nail" for their success rather than accepting an unfair world as an excuse for failure
    "The way of the world is you go and you create a business and you start creating value and you get to reap the financial rewards of that."


    Chapter Markers

    00:00 – Introduction to Deland McCullough and the Power of Authenticity
    01:00 – The Story of the Chicago Barbershop
    02:24 – When the City Inspector Shuts You Down
    03:57 – The Landlord’s Lesson: Navigating Permits and Rules
    05:00 – Understanding the "Default Mindset"
    06:12 – Deland McCullough's NFL Journey and Rebuilding
    08:34 – Instilling Self-Worth and Resilience in Our Sons
    10:15 – Taking Risks and the Courage to Rebuild

    Books, Links and Frameworks Mentioned

    • Deland McCullough: Former NFL player and coach featured on the show. https://raising.men/episodes/navigating-the-masculinity-crisis-with-deland-mccullough
    • The "Default Mindset": A psychological framework regarding whether an individual believes they deserve success or are destined to fail.
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    9 min
  • Navigating The Strong-Willed Path to Manhood with Kirk Martin

    Navigating The Strong-Willed Path to Manhood with Kirk Martin
    Apr 20 2026

    In today’s episode of the Raising Men podcast, we sit down with Kirk Martin, founder of Celebrate Calm and host of the Calm Parenting Podcast. For more than two decades, Kirk has helped over a million parents stop the power struggles and build stronger relationships with their children. In this conversation, we explore how traits that make boys “difficult” today—arguing, stubbornness, intensity—can become the very strengths that lead to leadership, creativity, and resilience in adulthood. Kirk shares practical scripts, powerful reframes, and a refreshing perspective on parenting strong-willed kids.

    Key Takeaways

    1. The traits that frustrate parents today like stubbornness and arguing are often the same traits that create strong leaders later in life.
    2. Parents should stop trying to control their children and instead focus on controlling their own reactions.
    3. Strong-willed and neurodivergent kids often possess powerful skills like pattern recognition, creativity, and entrepreneurial thinking.
    4. The quickest way to calm a child is not through punishment but through connection, movement, and giving them a sense of control.
    5. Modeling humility and emotional regulation teaches boys more about masculinity than any lecture ever could.


    Quotes from Kirk Martin

    “Stop taking things personally. You're a grown man. Why are you reacting to a four-year-old like it's a personal attack?”


    “The quickest way to change your child’s behavior is to first control your own.” "


    Humility is leadership. It’s listening, problem solving, and being gracious with people.”


    Chapter Markers

    00:00 — Stop Taking Kids’ Behavior Personally

    01:37 — Difficult Traits Create Strong Leaders

    02:29 — Reframing Stubbornness as a Strength

    03:23 — Skills Hidden Inside Arguing

    04:54 — Questioning Authority Is a Life Skill

    06:01 — School Rewards the Wrong Skills

    08:09 — When Boys Are Treated as a Threat

    10:00 — Conan Brain vs Sherlock Brain

    11:34 — Change Your Behavior First

    13:09 — Parent Like a Leader, Not a Boss

    14:12 — Curiosity Calms Conflict

    15:50 — Discipline Through Direction, Not Punishment

    16:24 — Channel Intensity Into Purpose

    18:20 — Neurodivergence as a Superpower

    20:05 — Decision-Making Beats Obedience

    21:02 — Confidence Is Easily Crushed

    22:48 — Compliance Doesn’t Equal Success

    24:49 — Visionary Kids vs Rule Followers

    26:56 — Your Biggest Problem Is Your Opportunity

    29:03 — This Isn’t About Your Authority

    30:52 — Staying Calm Changes Everything

    32:57 — How to Actually Calm a Kid Down

    35:34 — Matching Emotional Intensity

    38:02 — Connection vs Independence

    41:41 — Authority Doesn’t Need Proof

    44:30 — Modeling Humility as Masculinity

    46:36 — Final Takeaways for Parents


    Books, Links, and References Mentioned

    Celebrate Calm https://celebratecalm.com

    Calm Parenting Podcast https://celebratecalm.com/podcast

    Teton National Park https://www.nps.gov/grte/index.htm


    Framework Mentioned

    The Calm Parenting Script Framework

    1. Control yourself first - The parent regulates their own posture, tone, and reaction.

    2. Give the child control - Offer a task or choice they can own.

    3. Introduce movement - Physical activity helps regulate emotions.

    4. Offer connection through invitation - “Come join me when you're ready.”

    5. Validate intensity without excusing behavior - Example: “If I were you, I’d be frustrated too.”
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    47 min
  • Helping Boys Express Feelings Without Defaulting to Anger

    Helping Boys Express Feelings Without Defaulting to Anger
    Apr 16 2026

    In this Q&A episode of Raising Men, host Shaun Dawson dives into some of the most pressing parenting challenges shared by listeners. Drawing on insights from past guests like Steve Biddulph, Eric Davis, Ryan Walton, and Devin Kuntzmann, Shaun unpacks why boys often express emotions through anger, how parents fall into reactive patterns when exhausted, and what it really takes to raise resilient, emotionally strong young men.

    Key takeaways

    • Boys' nervous systems react more intensely to stress from infancy.
    • Anger in boys often masks vulnerability and fear.
    • Suppressing emotions can hinder a boy's purpose and passions.
    • Parents should model healthy emotional expression and leadership.
    • Taking breaks and declaring fatigue can prevent reactive anger.


    "Yelling damages long-term connection."


    "Pull over when your engine overheats."


    "Reprogram your childhood programming."


    Chapters

    00:00 Forging Men: The Blueprint for Parenting
    01:24 Understanding Anger: Boys and Emotional Expression
    08:12 Breaking the Cycle: Managing Parental Anger
    16:27 Tactical Wisdom: Learning from Past Mistakes

    Steve Biddulph https://raising.men/episodes/why-boys-are-falling-behind-and-what-we-can-do-about-it-with-steve-biddulph/transcript
    Eric Davis - https://raising.men/episodes/beyond-the-battlefield-a-navy-seal-s-guide-to-raising-good-men-with-eric-davis
    Ryan Walton - https://raising.men/episodes/raising-brave-boys-in-a-fearful-world-with-ryan-walton/transcript
    Devon Kuntzmann - https://raising.men/episodes/from-chaos-to-calm-devon-kuntzman-on-thriving-through-toddlerhood
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    16 min
  • What Boys Need Now: A Mindful Parenting Framework with Hunter Clarke-Fields

    What Boys Need Now: A Mindful Parenting Framework with Hunter Clarke-Fields
    Apr 13 2026
    In this episode of Raising Men, Shaun sits down with mindfulness teacher, author, and parenting expert Hunter Clarke-Fields, bestselling author of Raising Good Humans and host of the Mindful Mama Podcast. Together they explore what it really means to raise a “good human,” why parents’ emotional regulation matters more than perfect parenting, and how mindfulness can transform the parent–child relationship. Hunter shares honest stories from her own parenting journey—including struggles with anger, learning to regulate herself, and repairing relationships with her kids—while offering practical tools parents can apply immediately. Key TakeawaysThe most powerful parenting tool is modeling emotional regulation rather than telling kids how to behave.Children absorb the emotional climate of the household, so parents’ nervous systems directly influence their kids.Yelling is usually an unconscious stress response, not a conscious parenting choice, and can be retrained over time.Repair after conflict—apologizing and reconnecting—can heal relationships even years later.Parenting works best when we balance guidance and influence rather than relying heavily on power, punishment, or rewards. Top Quotes from Hunter Clarke-Fields“The best parenting we’re ever doing is in modeling. We can’t just tell our kids how to be—we have to live what we want them to learn.”“No parent wakes up and decides they’re going to yell at their child today—it’s an unconscious stress response.”“Our kids don’t need perfect parents. They need parents who mess up, repair, and show them how humans recover.” Chapter Markers00:00 — Compassion for Parents Comes First00:36 — Meet Hunter Clark-Fields01:07 — What Is a “Good Human”?01:47 — Comfort in Your Own Skin02:32 — Parents Shape the Emotional Weather03:48 — Kids Learn Regulation by Watching Us05:10 — When a Parent’s Anxiety Derails a Child06:01 — Why Slowing Down Saves Time07:32 — Imperfect Parents Are Enough08:27 — Why Yelling Shuts Down Learning09:40 — Yelling Is a Nervous System Reaction10:22 — Training the Nervous System Over Time11:37 — Conan the Barbarian vs. Sherlock Holmes Brain12:44 — Why Raising Good Humans Resonated13:38 — Skill Breaks Down When We’re Activated15:28 — Mindfulness as a Parenting Foundation16:40 — Parenting Without Enough Support17:14 — Why Humans Were Never Meant to Parent Alone18:33 — Practice Changes the Brain19:35 — A Skillful Way to Express Anger20:29 — Anger Isn’t the Problem, Damage Is21:20 — You Can Always Begin Again22:11 — “I Didn’t Ruin My Child”23:53 — Repair Matters More Than Perfection25:54 — The Power of Apologizing to Kids27:31 — Two Kids, Two Parenting Eras28:22 — A More Relaxed Parent Changes Outcomes30:43 — A Father’s Escalator Dilemma34:05 — When Fear Gets Worse Instead of Better35:20 — Why Rewards and Bribes Backfire37:15 — Intrinsic Motivation Builds Character37:48 — Carrying Your Own Baggage as a Parent39:45 — Power vs. Influence in Parenting41:12 — The Messy Middle of Gentle Parenting42:28 — There Is No One-Size-Fits-All Approach43:50 — One Principle: Slow Down and Protect Childhood45:38 — Closing CreditsBooksRaising Good Humans — Hunter Clarke-Fields https://mindfulmamamentor.com/rgh-book-excerpt-1/PodcastMindful Mama Podcast — https://mindfulmamamentor.com/podcast/https://podcasts.apple.com/ie/podcast/mindful-mama-mentor-hunter-clarke-fields-supporting/id996079418?i=1000456553512Social Media:https://www.instagram.com/mindfulmamamentor/https://www.facebook.com/135776546585922/https://www.linkedin.com/in/mindfulmamaTraining / ProgramsMindful Parenting Training — Hunter Clarke-FieldsFramework MentionedThe Regulation → Response Parenting FrameworkHunter’s approach centers on a simple but powerful sequence:Regulate yourself first – calm the nervous system before reactingPause before responding – create space between trigger and reactionRespond skillfully – choose communication that teaches rather than shamesRepair when needed – reconnect and apologize after mistakes
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    46 min
  • Q&A for Parents Raising Boys: Sensitivity, Defiance, and the Father Figure Gap

    Q&A for Parents Raising Boys: Sensitivity, Defiance, and the Father Figure Gap
    Apr 9 2026

    In this solo Q&A episode, Shaun Dawson answers some of the most common and emotionally charged parenting questions from the Raising Men community. Drawing on insights from past guests including child development experts, military leaders, and veteran fathers, Shaun unpacks how to raise boys with both strength and emotional health. This episode covers how to respond to a sensitive son, how to handle defiance without crushing a child’s spirit, and whether a surrogate male mentor can help fill the gap when a father is absent.

    Key Takeaways

    1. Toughness is not built through emotional coldness but through secure attachment, challenge, and recovery.
    2. A sensitive boy is not weak — he may simply need guidance learning how to regulate and direct strong emotions.
    3. Defiance in young boys is often a test of agency, and leadership works better than coercion.
    4. Parents should aim to build a disciplined will in their sons rather than break their spirit.
    5. When a biological father is absent, intentional male mentors can still play a powerful role in shaping a boy’s path to manhood.
    “Strength is built through recovery, not through struggle.”


    “You do not want a son with a broken will. You want a son with a disciplined will.”


    “You’re not just raising a kid. You are forging a man.”


    00:00 Welcome to Raising Men
    00:35 Question 1 — Should I toughen up my sensitive son?
    01:05 Stoicism vs emotional shutdown
    02:00 Why boys may be more emotionally fragile early on
    03:00 Masculinity, purpose, and emotional strength
    04:10 Why numbing emotions creates passive men
    04:50 Intentional discomfort vs emotional abandonment
    05:35 Question 2 — My 4-year-old is defiant. What do I do?
    06:05 Why defiance is often a test of agency
    06:45 Play, connection, and boundaries
    07:15 Respect, leadership, and family drills
    08:20 Don’t break his will — discipline it
    09:05 Question 3 — Can a mentor replace a father?
    09:40 Why male role models matter
    10:20 The “general manager” role in parenting
    11:10 What to look for in a surrogate father figure
    12:15 Why boys need mentors before adolescence
    13:00 Final encouragement for parents
    14:00 Closing thoughts and call to action

    People / Guests Mentioned

    • Steve Biddulph
      Referenced for his work on boys’ emotional development and the mentor phase in adolescence.
    • Eric Davis
      Referenced for ideas around modern masculinity, intentional discomfort, earned respect, and dad-shaped leadership gaps.
    • Ryan Walton
      Referenced for emotional avoidance, discipline, and framing struggle as a gift.
    • Devin Kuntzman
      Referenced for the idea that play and connection outperform coercion in parenting.
    • Lt. Gen. Mark Hertling
      Referenced for the “general manager” model of fatherhood and leadership from a distance.
    • Emily Houston
      Referenced for the importance of finding male mentors who navigate the modern world with integrity.

    Book Mentioned

    • Raising Men by Eric Davis
      Mentioned as a book written to address the “dad-shaped hole” many boys experience growing up.


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    14 min
  • Navigating the Masculinity Crisis with Deland McCullough

    Navigating the Masculinity Crisis with Deland McCullough
    Apr 6 2026
    In this episode of Raising Men, Shaun sits down with former NFL player and current Las Vegas Raiders running backs coach Deland McCullough. Deland shares a powerful journey that began with adoption, fatherlessness, and adversity in Youngstown, Ohio. Through football, mentorship, relentless work ethic, and a deep commitment to helping young men reach their potential, Deland built a remarkable career as a player, educator, and coach. His story explores masculinity, emotional development, mentorship, and the generational impact men can have when they choose to lead with purpose. Key TakeawaysMasculinity is not about suppressing emotion but about learning how to express feelings in healthy ways.The environment you grow up in may shape you, but it does not have to determine your destiny.Hard work often unlocks talent that people don’t initially see in themselves.Mentors and role models can completely change the trajectory of a young man’s life.The most meaningful success comes from helping others realize their potential.3. Top Quotes from Deland “Football wasn’t just a sport for me. It was a structure. It was an outlet.” “You may not be looking for a father, but I’m going to treat you like you’re my son.” “Hard work unlocked the talent.”Chapter Markers00:00 — The Poster on the Wall That Set the Vision01:05 — Believing Bigger Before It Was Possible02:12 — Early Coaching Dreams at Miami03:18 — Letting Life Unfold Without a Master Plan04:25 — Parallel Paths Without Knowing It05:38 — Both Starting in High School Coaching06:45 — First College Job at the Same Program07:58 — Moving Through the Big Ten Separately09:10 — Reaching the NFL on Different Roads10:28 — Both Making It to the Super Bowl11:35 — Losing to Tom Brady12:30 — When Your Nemesis Becomes Your Boss13:32 — Realizing the Pattern Was Too Similar14:45 — Deciding to Search for His Biological Family16:02 — Adoption Records Finally Opening17:25 — Discovering His Mother’s Identity18:40 — Learning His Father Was Right There All Along20:05 — The Weight of Telling the Truth21:24 — Calling the Man He’d Known as Coach22:48 — “Your Biological Father Is You”24:12 — Processing the Shock on Both Sides25:58 — Agreeing to a DNA Test27:05 — Waiting for Confirmation28:22 — The Test Comes Back 99.9%29:30 — Talking Every Day After the Results30:52 — Seeing Himself in Old Photos32:10 — Meeting His Biological Mother34:05 — Recognizing Yourself in the Mirror36:00 — Ten Minutes Was All It Took37:48 — Driving to Meet His Father as a Son39:10 — “My Son” at the Door40:42 — A Moment That Changed Everything42:05 — The Pain His Father Had to Carry43:50 — Turning Pain Into Purpose45:24 — Becoming the Father He Never Had47:10 — Four Sons as the Ultimate Blessing49:02 — Refusing to Repeat the Past50:40 — Fatherhood as the Crown Jewel52:31 — Raising Grounded Men With Privilege54:18 — Intention Over Perfection56:02 — Building a Mental Library of Counterexamples58:10 — Teaching Boys Through Presence01:00:21 — One Principle for Raising Excellent Men01:02:32 — Detailed, Dependable, Disciplined01:05:10 — Discipline Matters Most Under Pressure01:07:30 — Excellence Is Failing Less Over Time01:10:05 — Knowing the Standard Before You Measure01:12:18 — Being a Blessing or a Lesson01:14:38 — Treating Players Like Sons01:17:05 — Extending Fatherhood Beyond Family01:19:30 — Final Reflections on Raising Men01:39:03 — Closing CreditsBooks, Links, and References MentionedRuns in the Family: Co-authored by Deland McCullough and Sarah Spainhttps://www.harpercollins.com/products/runs-in-the-family-deland-mccullough-sarah-spainWhy Gender Matters by Leonard Sax https://www.leonardsax.com/why-gender-matters/Framework MentionedDeland describes the idea of emotional DNA as the patterns we inherit from how we were raised. These patterns influence how men handle emotions, masculinity, relationships, and fatherhood. Recognizing these inherited behaviors allows men to break negative cycles and intentionally raise the next generation differently.
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    1 ora e 39 min
  • Beyond the Battlefield: A Navy SEAL’s Guide to Raising Good Men with Eric Davis

    Beyond the Battlefield: A Navy SEAL’s Guide to Raising Good Men with Eric Davis
    Apr 1 2026
    In this episode of the Raising Men podcast, Shaun sits down with former Navy SEAL, master sniper instructor, and author Eric Davis, whose book Raising Men helped inspire the very foundation of this show. Eric shares the deeply personal story that drove him to explore masculinity, fatherhood, and the role men play in shaping the next generation.The conversation explores the modern masculinity crisis, why traditional models of manhood are failing many young men, and how fathers can intentionally raise resilient, purpose-driven sons. Drawing on his experiences in SEAL training, entrepreneurship, and parenting, Eric introduces his framework for modern masculinity and explains how fathers can lead their families with clarity, purpose, and example.Key TakeawaysTraditional masculinity is failing not because it was wrong but because the modern world has changed and requires new strengths.A man’s role is to use his passions to harmoniously fulfill and care for his personal, financial, and professional purposes.Resilience is not a personality trait but a skill that can be trained by maintaining and restoring the ability to act.Fathers must lead from the front by living the life they hope their children will one day emulate.Intentional parenting requires clarity of language, purpose, and example rather than vague ideas about what manhood should be.Quotes from Eric Davis“Traditional masculinity didn’t fail because it was broken — it failed because the environment changed.”“The role of a father is to use his passions to harmoniously fulfill and care for his personal, financial, and professional purposes.” “If you’re living a good intentional life, your children will eventually follow it.” Chapter Markers00:00 — Why Strong Families Make a Strong Country00:46 — Introducing Eric Davis and the Philosophy of Raising Men01:37 — The Masculinity Crisis and Why This Podcast Exists02:09 — Losing His Father at 16 and Searching for Male Guidance04:06 — Is There Really a Masculinity Crisis?05:00 — The Problem With “Traditional” Masculinity Online07:49 — Defining Modern Masculinity08:33 — Using Passion to Fulfil Life’s Purposes11:01 — Why Purpose Helps Young Men Avoid Distraction12:00 — Lessons From SEAL Training for Raising Sons13:03 — Discipline, Consequences, and Teaching Responsibility14:00 — Adventure and Outdoor Challenges as Parenting Tools15:00 — Why Resilience Is Central to SEAL Training15:33 — The Difference Between Perseverance and Resilience16:16 — How SEAL Training Builds Resilience18:00 — Why Some Candidates Secretly Quit19:03 — The Mental Game of Enduring Hardship21:27 — Don’t Borrow Suffering From the Future22:05 — Turning Outdoor Experiences Into Life Lessons23:05 — Parenting With Intention and Clear Outcomes24:10 — Teaching Kids Identity Through Shared Experiences26:41 — Why Boys Need Modern Rites of Passage28:13 — The Importance of Serious Responsibility in Manhood29:12 — Why Clear Language and Definitions Matter30:00 — How Families Create a Strong Nation31:10 — Why Old Work Models Are Failing Modern Fathers32:00 — Defining Purpose in Life34:16 — Why Personal Life Often Gets Sacrificed for Work35:00 — Aligning Your Life Around Your True Purposes36:13 — Purpose Already Exists—You Just Need Awareness37:16 — Designing Life Around What Actually Matters39:05 — The One Principle Every Parent Should Follow40:03 — Lead From the Front as a Father41:06 — Final Thoughts on Raising Sons41:55 — Podcast OutroBooks, Links, and ReferencesRaising Men: Lessons Navy SEALs Learned From Their Training and Taught to Their Sons – Eric DavisEric Davis Official Website https://ericdavis215.comhttps://instagram.com/eric_davis215Eric Davis’s Modern Masculinity FrameworkA father’s role is to: Use his passions to harmoniously fulfill and care for his personal, financial, and professional purposes.Key ComponentsPassion Living authentically and using personal strengths and interests.Purpose Understanding and caring for the key domains of life.Harmony Balancing life domains so no major area breaks down.Leadership by Example Fathers must model the life they want their children to build.Resilience Development Building the capacity to maintain and restore the ability to act under stress.
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    42 min
  • Feminism, Men, and the Future of Raising Strong Boys with Emily Huston

    Feminism, Men, and the Future of Raising Strong Boys with Emily Huston
    Mar 25 2026

    In this deep dive, Shaun sits down with lifelong friend and former professional athlete Emily Huston to discuss the silent crisis of identity and mental health facing boys and men today. From the high-pressure world of elite sports to the "cliff effect" of retirement, Emily shares her journey through depression and professional burnout to build Home Team—a marketplace and community designed to bridge the systemic gaps in athlete care.

    Key Topics Covered

    • The Masculinity Crisis & The Zero-Sum Game: Why empowering women and girls doesn’t have to come at the expense of boys and men, and how "us vs. them" mentalities prevent true progress.
    • The "Cliff Effect" in Sports: How the sudden loss of structure, community, and purpose at retirement leads to a profound identity crisis for athletes as young as 22.
    • The Impact of NIL and Social Media: The modern pressures on young athletes to be "influencers," which forces them to be "always on" and fuels toxic comparisons and performance anxiety.
    • Training vs. Exercising: The psychological hurdle athletes face when transitioning from a militaristic "no pain, no gain" environment to learning how to move their bodies for health and joy.
    • Preventable Tragedies: A discussion on the rising suicide rates among NCAA athletes and the critical need for better information transfer between institutions (e.g., the case of Marshawn Neeland).
    Retirement for an athlete isn't stepping down—it often feels like falling off a cliff.


    Just because you’re struggling does not mean that you’re weak... but when you’re performing, you can't be weak. It’s difficult to unmask.


    I have been a fierce advocate for women and girls... but if we women aren’t helping [men], it just continues to get worse. We truly need each other.


    Resources & Links Mentioned

    • Home Team: Emily’s platform centralizing athlete-centered care, community, and vetted mental health providers. https://hometeamgo.com/
    • Always an Athlete by Hilary Knight (or similar teammate): The book that illustrated the "mountain" of an athletic career and the "cliff" of retirement.
    • NIL (Name, Image, and Likeness): The NCAA policy change allowing college athletes to earn compensation, discussed here regarding its impact on mental health.

    Connect with Emily Huston

    • Website: https://hometeamgo.com/
    • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/emilymhuston/
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    1 ora e 4 min