Bethany Brady Spalding joins Jen and Patrick to explore the story of the daughters of Zelophehad in Numbers 27 and what it teaches about peaceful problem-solving, courageous advocacy, and collaborative leadership. The conversation centers on how asking a thoughtful question, offering a solution, and trusting the process can help change systems without defaulting to anger or conflict.

Timestamps

3:52 - Bethany’s definition of peace: progress toward God’s vision

5:26 - Discovering overlooked stories of women in scripture

8:49 - The daughters of Zelophehad and their inheritance claim

12:45 - Moses as a model for listening and responsive leadership

15:07 - Finding possibility during seasons of change

17:15 - Peaceful advocacy and creating space for women’s voices

20:11 - Why collaboration strengthens peacemaking

23:31 - Building community coalitions through the Health Access Project

26:27 - Diane Nash and the power of a moral question

29:10 - Pairing hard questions with practical possibilities

33:35 - Navigating tension between preserving and changing systems

39:12 - Why Bethany approaches injustice one issue at a time

43:14 - Managing fear when speaking to power

45:00 - Bethany’s pathway to finding peace

For full show notes and transcript, visit https://proclaimpeace.org

Emma Addams joins Jen and Patrick to explore the themes of peace, defiance, and civic engagement through the lens of the biblical stories of Vashti and Esther. They discuss how personal definitions of peace can shape one's actions and the implications of defiance in a patriarchal society. The conversation delves into the complexities of navigating power dynamics, the different theories of change, and the strategic use of managed compliance in effecting social change. They discuss the different forms of courage exhibited by both women, the importance of trust and proximity in relationships, and the complexities of navigating agency in a world with limited options.

TIMESTAMPS:

02:08 The Story of Vashti: Defiance and Consequences

09:58 Esther's Entry: Navigating Power Dynamics

15:50 Theories of Change: Inside vs. Outside Strategies

21:16 Managed Compliance: A Strategic Approach to Change

25:57 The Power of Listening

29:09 Peacemaking: Vashti vs. Esther

33:50 Navigating Agency and Peacemaking

40:00 The Role of Trust and Proximity

45:45 Faith and the Cost of Peacemaking

51:20 Hope in Courageous Voices

54:37 Finding Peace Amidst Conflict

For full show notes and transcript, visit https://proclaimpeace.org

Rev. Adam Taylor joins Jen and Patrick for a wide-ranging conversation about peace, justice, and the prophetic vision of Isaiah 58. He shares how his own faith journey, shaped by interracial family roots, the civil rights movement, and Black church tradition, led him to Sojourners and to a deep conviction that peace is more than the absence of conflict.The episode explores why justice and peace are inseparable, how Isaiah 58 challenges transactional religion, and what it means to become a “repairer of the breach” in both public life and personal discipleship.

TIMESTAMPS:

00:54 - Peace defined as wholeness and right relationship

05:20 - The Jim Wallis course that led to Sojourners

08:59 - Why peace and justice belong together

10:06 - Biblical justice language: mishpat and tsedek

13:13 - Isaiah 58 in context: exile and true fasting

17:18 - Why injustice is structural, not just interpersonal

24:15 - Moving beyond zero-sum thinking

31:53 - Wages, land, labor, and other biblical justice issues

35:32 - Pastoral advice for people resistant to justice language

43:07 - How unjust systems advantage some and trap others

49:57 - “Repairers of the breach” and the call to peacemaking

52:48 - Breath prayer: “Be still and know that I am God”

For full show notes and transcript, visit https://proclaimpeace.org