In this final episode of 2025, I’m joined by Tripp Fuller from Homebrewed Christianity and Paul Hoard from the Seattle School of Theology and Psychology. We talk about the Christmas story, and how, in so many ways, it moves in the opposite direction of the stories being told by artificial intelligence prophets, power brokers, and profiteers today.

So, wherever you are at in this advent season, I hope this conversation brings you a bit of hope as it reminds you of what it is to be human, what love truly is, and how, even when it seems so dark out there, the light of the world really has overcome that darkness.

Have a Merry Christmas and Happy New Year. I’ll see you in 2026.

Bios

Tripp Fuller is a podcaster, theologian, minister and competitive home brewer. Currently, he is visiting Professor of Theology at Luther Seminary. He received his PhD in Philosophy, Religion, and Theology at Claremont Graduate University. For over 12 years Tripp has been doing the Homebrewed Christianity podcast where he interviews different scholars about their work so you can get nerdy in traffic, on the treadmill, or doing the dishes. Last year it had over 3 million downloads. It also inspired a book series with Fortress Press called the Homebrewed Christianity Guides to topics like God, Jesus, Spirit, Church History and so on.

Paul Hoard, PhD, LMHC, is a psychoanalytic psychotherapist and associate professor of counseling psychology at The Seattle School of Theology & Psychology. His work sits at the intersection of Lacanian theory, theology, and culture, examining how desire, disgust, trauma, sexuality, and play shape our lives and imaginations. He maintains a clinical practice, provides supervision for therapists integrating psychoanalysis and theology, and is the co-author (with his sister Billie Hoard) of Eucontamination: Disgust Theology and the Christian Life, a book that reimagines the theological logic of disgust as a site of transformation rather than exclusion.

Tripp's Links

Website: https://www.homebrewedchristianty.com/

Substack: https://processthis.substack.com/

Bluesky: @trippfuller.bsky.social

Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/ca/podcast/homebrewed-christianity/id276269040

Paul's Links

Substack: https://paulhoard.substack.com/

Paul's Book: https://wipfandstock.com/9798385213726/eucontamination/

In this episode, I speak with two returning guests, political columnist and commentator David Moscrop and politician Jeff Wheeldon.

As you’ll discover, the origin story for what you’ll about to hear kicked off when David used the terms 'mutant socialist' and 'bad leftist' in our previous conversation.

There was something about those terms, and the thoughts surrounding them, that helped me feel very seen and understood. And it also reminded me a lot of the conversation I had with Jeff on this show.

The three of us all lean to the left in our politics, but that doesn’t mean we feel totally at home within what constitutes ‘The Left’ today. And for me personally, this reality actually goes a fairly long way in accounting for why I started Personalist Manifesto(s): to explore what it could look like to venture into uncharted political territory in our fraught right, left, and centre, landscape today.

And so, I thought, “Well… Maybe I—maybe we—are mutant socialists?” And then, the idea for this assembly was born: a mutant socialist assembly, a bad leftist conversation, where we talk politics in ways that do and don’t fit with many of the options on offer today, and we see if that resonates with ourselves and anyone listening.

We cover a lot of ground here: 90s pop culture, technology, institutions, localized politics, and lots in between. And we hope, in covering this ground, you feel encouraged to practice touch the grass, love your neighbour, politics wherever you happen to be. And so with that, here’s my conversation with David and Jeff—the mutant socialist crew.

Bios

David Moscrop is a politics columnist, commentator, and author of Too Dumb for Democracy? Why We Make Bad Political Decisions And How We Can Make Better Ones. His work has appeared in outlets including Globe and Mail, the Washington Post, the Walrus, Time Magazine, the Guardian, and Jacobin. He holds a PhD in political science from the University of British Columbia.

Jeff Wheeldon blogs on municipal politics, and still occasionally publishes essays on politics, religion, and sociology.

Links

David's Book: Too Dumb for Democracy? Why We Make Bad Political Decisions and How We Can Make Better Ones: https://gooselane.com/products/too-dumb-for-democracyDavid's Substack: www.davidmoscrop.com

David's Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/davidmoscrop.com

David's Twitter: @David_Moscrop

Jeff's blog: https://jeffwheeldon.ca/blog/

Jeff's publications: https://sociologyandchristianity.org/index.php/jsc/article/view/281

When genocides and political atrocities take place, it has become common for people to assemble in public, bear witness to what has happened, and address those events to reach a sense of… what, exactly?

Awareness? Truth? Understanding? Closure? Reconciliation? Healing? Reparation? Change?

And if these—or something else—are the aims of these assemblies, do they actually achieve these goals? Enter Jane Barter, and her new book Theopolitics and the Era of the Witness, to explore these and so many other important questions related to a phenomenon that has become so typical of our time that it is rare to encounter people thinking as deeply, and speaking as meaningfully to these questions as Jane does.

Bio

Jane Barter (she/her) is Professor of Religion and Culture at the University of Winnipeg. She has published three monographs, including her a recent book on witnessing to political atrocity, Theopolitics and the Era of the Witness (Routledge. 2025). She recently co-edited (with Doris Kieser, St. Joseph’s College, University of Alberta) a special volume of the Journal of Moral Theology on the papal visit and apology to survivors of Residential Schools in Canada. She is also general editor of the forthcoming (2026) multi-volume T & T Clark Encyclopedia of Christian Theology (Bloomsbury Press).

Links

Jane's new book: https://www.routledge.com/Theopolitics-and-the-Era-of-the-Witness/Barter/p/book/9781032615035

It’s amazing and terrifying how one small sentence posted online at a particular moment in a particular context can spread like wildfire, and result in a book.

In this case, it was the sentence Jesus was non-violent, posted by Susy Flory on Facebook during the Covid-19 pandemic and the January 6 Insurrection that started the fire and led to a book.

In this conversation, I speak with Susy and Scott Johanningsmeir, editors of the recent published book Jesus Was: Not What We Expected But Better Than We Imagined where we not only get the origin story for the book, but we also reflect on how some of the most important things in life, including the Christian life, can be hidden in plain sight.

So whether you identify as a Christian or not, I encourage you to listen to this conversation. It might re-introduce you, or introduce you for the first time, to the revolutionary, and kind, Jesus. Who not only was, but is, and is to come.

Bios and Links

Susy Flory is a New York Times best-selling author or coauthor of eighteen books, directs West Coast Christian Writers, and is the founder of Everything Memoir with Susy Flory. Her book The Unbreakable Boy became a feature film in wide release in March, 2025. Susy earned a master’s degree in New Testament at Northern Seminary and is finishing up her doctoral studies on women writers in the ancient world, including the New Testament era. She lives in Northern California. Check out Susy’s Substack, and follow her on Facebook and Instagram.

Scott Johanningsmeier is a bivocational pastor at Elizabeth Baptist Church in Southern Indiana. He has a bachelor’s degree in music technology from Indiana University and a master’s degree in New Testament from Northern Seminary. Outside of ministry, he works in the technology installation industry. He and his wife have two daughters. Check out Scott’s Substack and follow him on Facebook and LinkedIn.

Oh, and pick up a copy of the Jesus Was: Not What We Expected But Better Than We Imagined book here.

As you’ll hear in this conversation, this episode started with a collegial back-and-forth about a footnote concerning punk rock. I was reviewing my friend Erv Klassen’s Doctor of Ministry project on hope, and he took an excellent side quest at the bottom of one of his pages to talk about the birth of punk rock.

Don’t you just love it when music fans get into hairsplitting conversations (i.e. arguments) about who started what and when and how they started it? I know I do. Well, sometimes. And then at other times, I don’t.

Either way, what I love about this footnote is that it started an offline conversation that started the podcast dialogue that you’re about hear—and maybe one day, it’ll result in a micro-course on theology and punk rock. We’ll see. But for the time being, my conversation with Erv is about punk rock, and what that has to do with hope and theology.

The funny thing is, Jacques Ellul wrote about punk rock (and disco) in his book Empire of Non-Sense. And here’s what he says in a footnote:

"These pages were written well before the appearance of punk and disco. But these movements are nothing more than the confirmation and continuation of the previous movement of insignificance congealed by the hypnotic effect of technique. The sounds, the shouts, the gesticulations, the frenzied outbursts, the throbbing, the fragmentation are in reality perfectly stereotyped and express a programmed type of music. The sounds that burst forth do not express any “emotion” in spite of what one says; they simply produce an instant of mind-altered happiness. One must not forget that after punk the emotionless style prevails. After the anarchy and spontaneity of punk comes, not with a tip of the scale but with the continuation of the same tendency, a frozen, rigid, and petrified style. It is not for nothing that one hears “Do the Mussolini,” a derive appeal to Fascism, and constant appeal to death, “I wish I could die…” What causes this completely depersonalized and neutralized ethos and a glorification of militarism?

So, clearly, Ellul wasn’t a fan—at least not of nihilistic synth-punk bands. Fair enough. But the question he asks “what causes this…?” can lead in all sorts of directions, and not all in the ways Ellul proposes here. There are other, more hopeful directions, that punks can take. And in this episode, Erv and I try to articulate what those other directions may be.

Bio

Erv Klassen is the Registrar and Assistant Academic Dean at Columbia Bible College in Abbotsford. He teaches in the areas of Spiritual Formation and Christian History. Erv is passionate about old books like medieval Christian devotional literature, and loves introducing these spiritual classics to others. He has worked at Columbia since 2008 following his work as a youth pastor and many summers working at summer camp. He loves playing modern board games, listening to rock and roll, reading Superman comics, flying kites, and birdwatching. He and his family live in Hope (figuratively and literally).

Links

Erv's Doctor of Ministry Project on Hope: https://actsseminaries.com/assets/main/klassen---hope-dmn-project-final-version-with-signatures.pdf

A Non-Comprehensive Punk Rock Playlist in No Specific Order

• Nuggets: Original Artyfacts from the First Psychedelic Era, 1965–1968

• The Clash - London Calling

• The Go-Gos - Beauty and the Beat • Greenday - American Idiot (2004)

• Iggy and the Stooges - Raw Power

• Patti Smith - Horses

• The Ramones - Ramones

• Talking Heads - 77

• The Clash - London Calling

• Sex Pistols - Never Mind the Bollocks

• The Jam - In the City

• Joy Division - Unknown Pleasures

• New Order - Movement

• Black Flag - Damaged

• Minor Threat - First Two Seven Inches

• Fugazi - 13 Songs

• Bad Brains - Rock for Light

• Refused - Shape of Punk to Come

• At the Drive - Relationship of Command

• Blink-182 - Cheshire Cat

• Blink-182 - Dude Ranch

This is episode 36 of Personalist Manifesto(s), and to tell you the truth, I’m a bit surprised it has taken this long to feature a longform conversation about music.

Music has come up in other episodes, of course, but this is the first time I’ve done full-length talk about something so close to my heart.

Because of that, it makes total sense that I’d have my friend, Joshua Leventhal, a worship pastor, songwriter, and performer to talk all things music—including, what it’s like making a go at being a career musician when streaming and social media have totally changed the way music is made and shared in and industry that can be so wonderful, and so depressing, at the same time.

Oh, and another thing. Speaking of music, next week’s episode is also going to be about music. Punk rock, in fact. So stay tuned for that.

And so with that, here’s my conversation with Josh.

Bio

Joshua Leventhal is a songwriter and artist who makes music unto Jesus. His desire is to express full honesty in his lyricism without betraying reverence or hope. He wants to give people words for things they've always felt, but never had the words to express. Joshua is American-born but Canadian-raised; he is married to fellow creative Kaitlyn Rose, and they are based outside of Vancouver BC. He has won GMAs for both album of the year and song of the year, and was nominated for a Juno for Gospel Album of the Year.

Links

Music: joshualeventhal.com/releases

YouTube: youtube.com/@joshualeventhal

Tour: joshualeventhal.com/tour

Website: joshualeventhal.com

Additional Links

Redwall: https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/series/DUI/redwall/

Ebert Reviews: https://www.rogerebert.com/reviews

Violence in the Old Testament Micro-Course: https://nbseminary.ca/academics/life-long-learning/violence-in-the-old-testament/

Political Theology Micro-Course: https://nbseminary.ca/academics/life-long-learning/christians-and-politics/

Karl Barth Theology Symposium: https://nbseminary.ca/theology-on-fire/

In this episode, Grace Ji-Sun Kim becomes the first ever returning guest on this show—and in this conversation, we talk about her new book Earthbound: God at the Intersection of Climate and Justice. Grace’s book offers a transformative vision of divine presence that calls us to active, restorative justice in a world crying out for restoration. Now, two things about this recording. First, it’s audio only (although you can watch a YouTube video with some nice looking audio waves if you want some nice visuals). Second, there might be a bit of background noise here and there. I had to record this conversation on the fly at a conference in between keynote talks Grace was giving and panels she was speaking on. In fact, right after this conversation ended, Grace had to run to panel session.Still, it feels right that this conversation is an unvarnished field recording. It has the spirit of The Spirit. You know, the one who is like the wind, blowing wherever, whenever and out of our control. So hopefully our this dialogue helps you hear the wind of the Spirit, and respond with care for the creation that the Spirit is breathing life into.BioGrace Ji-Sun Kim is Professor of Theology at Earlham School of Religion and the author/editor of 24 books, including Earthbound, Feminist Theologies: The Basics, When God Became White, Surviving God, Christianity in North America, Spirit Life, Invisible, Hope in Disarray, Keeping Hope Alive, Intersectional Theology, and Healing our Broken Humanity. She received her M.Div. from Knox College (University of Toronto) and her Ph.D. from the University of Toronto. She is also an ordained minister of word and sacrament within the Presbyterian (USA) denomination.LinksEarthbound (new book): https://orbisbooks.com/products/earthbound-god-at-the-intersection-of-climate-and-justiceFeminist Theologies: The Baisics (co-authored new book): https://www.routledge.com/Feminist-Theologies-The-Basics/Shaw-Ji-SunKim/p/book/9781032643908Website: https://gracejisunkim.wordpress.com/Substack: https://gracek.substack.com/Podcast: https://www.christiancentury.org/podcast/madang

The introduction to this episode was recorded at 11:17am, On September 15, 2025 Pacific Time. The conversation with politics columnist, commentator, and author David Moscrop ⁠in this episode was recorded at 11:00am Pacific time on August 29, 2025 Pacific Time.

I am sharing these dates and times with you so you get a sense of the timeline for, or the lead up to, David and I’s initial conversation, and what has happened between that dialogue and now.

I am, of course, referring to the murder of Charlie Kirk on September 10, 2025, and the apprehension of the murder suspect a few days ago.

If I am being totally honest with you, I was not and am not sure if it is right to mention this here.

On the one hand, I do not want to add to the noise or capitalize upon this tragedy, or any tragedy, in order to get attention.

On the other hand, to not mention anything seems to run against the grain of the Personalist Manifesto(s) project as a whole, and the topics discussed in this particular conversation—which, as it happens, I had planned to post when I am posting it before any of what I am referring to took place.

Strange, if not unnerving, how time, intention, and circumstance interact, isn’t it?

And how will they interact in the day to come?

I don’t know. I really, truly, don’t know.

But as a proponent of non-violent resistance to evil in any form it assumes, I want to clearly and public denounce violence here, within this context, and any other past, present, or future instance of violence that does and does not receive media attention.

So, my hope is that this conversation, and others like it on Personalist Manifesto(s), bear witness to these convictions. In so doing, I hope to offer both a critical and constructive account of how you, I, and anyone else listening or watching, can put our feet on the grass, and love our neighbour in local, immediate, and tangible ways.

Take care of yourself, okay?

And take care of your neighbour, whomever they are.

Peace be with you.

All of you.

Bio

David Moscrop is a politics columnist, commentator, and author of Too Dumb for Democracy? Why We Make Bad Political Decisions And How We Can Make Better Ones. His work has appeared in outlets including Globe and Mail, the Washington Post, the Walrus, Time Magazine, and the Guardian. He holds a PhD in political science from the University of British Columbia.

Links

David's Book: Too Dumb for Democracy? Why We Make Bad Political Decisions and How We Can Make Better Ones: https://gooselane.com/products/too-dumb-for-democracy

Substack: www.davidmoscrop.com

Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/davidmoscrop.com

Twitter: @David_Moscrop

Additional Links

Jacques Ellul, Autopsy of Revolution: https://wipfandstock.com/9781606089774/autopsy-of-revolution/

Samuel Caramela, "Billionaires Are Building Luxury Bunkers to Escape Doomsday": https://www.vice.com/en/article/billionaires-are-building-luxury-bunkers-to-escape-doomsday/

Abby Livingston, "Ted Cruz says leaving Texas during winter disaster was "obviously a mistake" as he returns from Cancún": https://www.texastribune.org/2021/02/18/ted-cruz-cancun-power-outage/

Interstellar clip on pioneers: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0Wltu5hfPU

Austin Powers clip on slow, avoidable death: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_PrZ-J7D3k