Brian and Brandon close out the two-part conversation marking the 25th anniversary of 9/11, covering the post-9/11 surveillance state, the media's complicit framing to direct our anger, and failures in modern government and corporate culture.

They open with the origin of the baker's dozen, then Brandon reflects on his freshman year of college in 2001 and the search for clarity 25 years later. Brian recounts seeing Come From Away, the story of 7,000 airline passengers diverted to Gander, Newfoundland, and contrasts that solidarity with the long-term effects on American life. They recall the morning of 9/11, lingering post-traumatic hallucinations, and the silence over Phoenix Sky Harbor's flight paths.

The conversation covers how fear shaped the Patriot Act and NSA surveillance, why Flight 93 and Todd Beamer are rarely memorialized, and a Gallup poll where voters responded differently to Obamacare than to the Affordable Care Act, the same policy under different names. They also discuss the claim that government should run like a business, elite capture, corporate R&D cycles, anomalies in the Epstein files, and 1990s gifted education programs, closing with the final stretch before Election Day.

Topics covered:

• The baker's dozen and the origin of 13 as an unlucky number
• 25 years after 9/11: personal memories and Sky Harbor's silent skies
• Come From Away and the people of Gander, Newfoundland
• Flight 93, Todd Beamer, and civilian agency
• The Patriot Act, NSA surveillance, and security theater
• Media framing: Obamacare vs. the Affordable Care Act in Gallup polling
• The claim that government should run like a business
• Elite capture and insecurity in leadership
• Corporate R&D cycles and deregulation
• Anomalies in the Epstein files
• Gifted education programs and the final stretch before Election Day

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