This episode features Larry Lessig, Harvard Law professor and founder of Equal Citizens, a nonprofit dedicated to democracy and campaign finance reform. Everyone blames Citizens United for Super PACs. Lessig says that's wrong. In this episode, Nancy and Larry will unpack how a case in Maine has the potential to get rid of Super PACs without overturning Citizens United. Larry explains how it was a 2010 lower court case, Speech Now, that actually opened the door to Super PACs and how that case got the law wrong. Nancy and Larry also discuss how the Maine case, Dinner Table Action vs Schneider, could give the Supreme Court the opportunity to overturn Speech Now using its own precedent and aligning with the majority’s own originalist philosophy. If the stars align, there is a chance that a Supreme Court ruling on this case could place limits on Super PAC contributions in time for the 2028 elections.

Lawrence Lessig is the Roy L. Furman Professor of Law and Leadership at Harvard Law School. Prior to returning to Harvard, he taught at Stanford Law School, where he founded the Center for Internet and Society, and at the University of Chicago. Lessig is the founder of Equal Citizens and a founding board member of Creative Commons, and serves on the Scientific Board of AXA Research Fund. He clerked for Judge Richard Posner on the 7th Circuit Court of Appeals and Justice Antonin Scalia on the United States Supreme Court.

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Nancy’s guest on this episode is Sarah Jakle, the founder of DemocraShe, a national leadership program for underserved high school girls, and for every public policy skill they teach, like public speaking or lobbying Congress, they pair it with a brain-science skill to keep girls from getting knocked off their path. The results: girls who can picture themselves as future candidates more than double in the program, and alumnae who have been the youngest elected officials in Maryland.

Nancy and Sarah get into: the "amygdala skills" — like inner best friend and inner champion — that Sarah's girls use to interrupt fight-or-flight in real time; why the entire program is peer-led, run and built by teenagers themselves; and "DemocraShe Congress," a role-play where girls from different states have to yes-and their way to real, cross-partisan legislation.

Sarah Jakle is the Founder and Executive Director of DemocraShe, a nonpartisan national nonprofit empowering historically underserved high school girls to be our future leaders, voters, civically engaged citizens and elected officials. Previously, Sarah served as the Get Out The Vote Director for the California National Organization for Women and as the National Outreach Director for Field Team 6, leading efforts for mobilizing women and innovative voter registration. Empowering women to hold political office has been an interest since Sarah first interned at the Women’s Council of the Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committee in college.

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This episode is the second part of Nancy’s conversation with Dr. Matthew Taylor, a visiting scholar at Georgetown's Center on Faith and Justice and a leading expert on Christian nationalism, religious extremism, and the role of religious pluralism in defending democracy. In this part of the conversation, Matt and Nancy discuss whether Christian nationalism can ever be compatible with a pluralistic society; how we need to build a big tent to unite with what Matt calls the “persuadable middle”; the Christian supremacists at the highest level of power in our government; Christian Zionism, anti-semitism; and where to look for inspiration and hope.At the end of Part 1, Nancy and Matt had just finished speaking about the theology, symbols and culture of independent charismatic Christianity and the huge role this played on January 6th.

Matthew D. Taylor is a visiting scholar at the Center on Faith and Justice at Georgetown University. is the author of The Violent Take It by Force and, forthcoming, Defying Tyrants. A public-facing theologian and religious studies scholar who specializes in American Islam, Christian nationalism, and Christian extremism, he is also the creator of two limited podcast series–American Unexceptionalism and Charismatic Revival Fury. Taylor holds a PhD from Georgetown University and an MA from Fuller Theological Seminary.

Thank you for being a listener!

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