For years, marketers have used downloads to help determine their podcast spend. But now that podcasts exist in so many different formats and spaces—from long-form Netflix videos to short-form YouTube Shorts clips to live shows—it’s harder than ever to determine audience size. With so many platforms in play, how can creators know exactly what they’re selling? More importantly, how can buyers know what they’re getting?

This week, Dan Granger (CEO & Founder, Oxford Road) hosts Steve Goldstein (Founder & CEO, Amplifi Media; Adjunct Professor, NYU)on Media Roundtable to talk about how $1-2B in additional growth can be unlocked if we ditch downloads and create a new universal and consistent metric.

Want the DL on downloads? Join Dan and Steve as they debate new methods of measurement and discuss what buyers need to be paying attention to as podcasting moves into its next phase.

“The money is going to flow to where the audience is. We have the audience. We have great shows…If we can verify the audience and present it in a unified sort of way, that's where we need to be.”

-Steve Goldstein (Founder & CEO, Amplifi Media; Adjunct Professor, NYU)

For more than a year now, the Alliance for Measurement in Podcasting, or AMP, has been working to create new frameworks for podcast measurement. In this week’s Media Roundtable, we’re announcing some of our latest findings.

Dan Granger (CEO & Founder, Oxford Road) and Giles Martin (EVP -Strategy, Oxford Road) welcome Pete Birsinger (CEO & Founder, Podscribe) to discuss the problem with downloads, AMP’s internal tug-of-war, and the new standard metrics that could help grow the industry.

“ This type of evolution should put podcasting on a better footing to compete with other media channels for an enormous part of advertising dollars.”

• Pete Birsinger (CEO & Founder, Podscribe)

If your phone is full of podcast episodes you’ve never actually played, you know a download isn’t the same as an impression. So how can marketers figure out who’s really tuning in, and who’s tuning out? This week’s Media Roundtable discussion has you covered.

Dan Granger (CEO & Founder, Oxford Road) and Giles Martin (EVP, Strategy, Oxford Road) welcome Dan Misener (co-founder, Bumper) to talk about the Bumper Score, a major new step toward shrinking the gap between a podcast’s reported listenership and its actual audience. It’s no secret we’re big advocates for better podcast measurement (check out today’s Forbes story, written by Frank Racioppi, about our work on the AMP Accords). The Bumper Score, like AMP, is aimed at helping the industry unlock its next billions through better data.

Join our panel of experts as they discuss how better information can not only lead to better measurement, but can also help prevent billions of dollars from being left on the sidelines.

“ There is a gigantic gap between what buyers are paying for and what sellers are actually delivering.”

• Dan Misener (co-founder, Bumper)