What happens when you quit drinking—but life still feels unbearable? In this raw, deeply validating conversation, Dr. Sarah Michaud sits down with sobriety coach, author, and creator of the Soberful podcast with Veronica Valli, to unpack the missing link in recovery: emotional sobriety. From early addiction and fear-driven coping to codependent relationships and subconscious attachment wounds, Veronica shares why so many people get sober yet still feel stuck—and what actually creates lasting freedom. This episode is for anyone who’s sober, sober-curious, or emotionally exhausted from repeating the same relationship patterns and wondering, “Why am I still hurting?”

Key Takeaways

• Why sobriety without emotional recovery can feel worse over time

• How fear—not alcohol—is often the real addiction

• The connection between codependency, attachment wounds, and relapse

• Why movement and the body are non-negotiable in healing

• What “emotional sobriety” actually looks like in real life

Key Timestamps

[00:02:00] Veronica’s early drinking and fear-based coping

[00:06:00] The moment she realized fear—not alcohol—was the root

[00:08:30] Emotional sobriety vs. white-knuckling recovery

[00:11:30] Why relationships stay chaotic even after getting sober

[00:14:30] The five pillars of emotional sobriety

[00:18:00] Why movement and the body matter more than we thinkNotable Resources & Guest Links

• Veronica Valli — Sobriety Coach & Author

• Book: Soberful

Podcast & YouTube: Soberful

If this episode resonated, subscribe, rate, and review Leaving CrazyTown—and share it with someone who’s sober but still struggling.

Leaving CrazyTown is a raw, real-talk podcast hosted by Finn and Dr. Sarah Michaud, two recovering addicts turned relatable guides on the wild ride of codependency healing. Each episode dives deep into the chaos of dysfunctional relationships, identity loss, and emotional recovery—with humor, honesty, and hope. Subscribe and buckle up—we’re leaving CrazyTown.

In this episode of Leaving CrazyTown, Finn and Dr. Sarah break down a deceptively simple but life-changing concept: there is nothing to defend. Through humor, real-life role-play, and honest reflection, they explore how defensiveness, ghosting, and emotional shutdown sabotage connection—and how validation, curiosity, and clarity create safety instead. If you’ve ever felt misunderstood, reactive, or stuck in communication loops, this conversation offers a grounded path out of CrazyTown and into emotional freedom.Key Takeaways

• Defensiveness blocks connection—even when your intentions are good

• Validating someone’s feelings doesn’t mean agreeing with their story

• Telling yourself a story isn’t the same as telling the truth

• Clear, direct communication prevents resentment from leaking sideways

• Healing codependency starts with emotional responsibility, not blame

Key Timestamps

• [00:01] — Introducing “There Is Nothing to Defend”

• [00:02] — What defensiveness actually sounds like in real life

• [00:04] — Ghosting, shutdowns, and passive aggression explained

• [00:05] — Sharing feelings without blame

• [00:06] — Validation vs. agreement: the crucial distinction

Notable Resources & Links

• Dr. Sarah Michaud — Author of Co Crazy

• Website: https://drsarahmichaud.com/

• Follow @leavingcrazytown on YouTube

If this episode hit home, subscribe, rate, and review Leaving CrazyTown—and share it with someone who’s tired of defending themselves just to feel understood.

Leaving CrazyTown is a raw, real-talk podcast hosted by Finn and Dr. Sarah Michaud, two recovering addicts turned relatable guides on the wild ride of codependency healing. Each episode dives deep into the chaos of dysfunctional relationships, identity loss, and emotional recovery—with humor, honesty, and hope. Subscribe and buckle up—we’re leaving CrazyTown.

In this raw, relatable episode, Finn and Dr. Sarah unpack two deceptively simple moments that sent them spiraling onto the “crazy train.” What begins as a casual invite — coffee or walk? — becomes a full-blown internal crisis about likability, expectations, and imagined judgments. Together, they reveal how codependency sneaks into everyday interactions, why old fears get activated, and how to pause long enough to choose clarity over chaos. Expect laughter, truth bombs, and practical tools for stepping off the train and back into your life.

Takeaways

• Codependency often shows up in micro-moments, not just big relational crises.
• If a simple question feels hard to answer, you may be basing your response on imagined reactions, not your actual preference.
• Old stories (like fear of being “lazy,” “difficult,” or “high maintenance”) often drive our present-day behavior.
• Pausing before responding is a powerful tool for reclaiming agency and reducing reactivity.
• Progress isn’t perfection — noticing the pattern is the breakthrough.

Key Timestamps

• [00:00] — Welcome to Leaving CrazyTown

• [01:00] — Finn & Sarah confess: We briefly hopped back on the crazytrain

• [02:00] — The “coffee or walk?” question that triggered a codependent spiral

• [04:00] — Imagined judgments, old fears, and why simple choices feel impossible

• • [07:30] — How childhood conditioning shows up in adult relationships
  • [08:30] — Why awareness — not perfection — marks healing

  
  

  Notable Resources / Guest Links

• • Dr. Sarah Michaud, Author of Co Crazy

  • Follow on YouTube: @leavingcrazytown

  If this episode hit home, share it with a friend who answers questions based on fear instead of preference. And don’t forget to subscribe and review — it helps more people leave CrazyTown.

  
  Leaving CrazyTown is a raw, real-talk podcast hosted by Finn and Dr. Sarah Michaud, two recovering addicts turned relatable guides on the wild ride of codependency healing. Each episode dives deep into the chaos of dysfunctional relationships, identity loss, and emotional recovery—with humor, honesty, and hope. Subscribe and buckle up—we’re leaving CrazyTown.

In this powerful, unfiltered conversation, Dr. Sarah sits down with The Mental Illness Happy Hour host Paul Gilmartin for an honest look at trauma, recovery, intimacy, and the long-term impact of childhood wounds. Paul shares how early emotional experiences shaped his patterns in adulthood—and how compassion, boundaries, and accountability became the tools that changed everything. Together, Paul and Sarah explore the messy, courageous work of healing from codependency, breaking survival-mode behaviors, and learning to build relationships rooted in honesty, repair, and self-respect.

Takeaways

• Childhood emotional wounds often shape adult patterns more deeply than we realize.

• Healing requires honesty, humility, and a willingness to take responsibility for our part.

• Boundaries are essential—not just with others but with ourselves.

• Intimacy becomes possible when shame decreases and self-awareness increases.

• Repairing ruptures in relationships builds trust and strengthens connection.

Key Timestamps

• [00:01:00] Listening to hundreds of stories: how Paul protects his emotional battery

• [00:05:00] Early recovery and uncovering deeper issues beneath addiction

• [00:09:00] Learning boundaries, accountability, and the meaning of true intimacy

• [00:14:00] Communication without blame: why timing and tone matter

• [00:18:00] Childhood wounds, emotional responsibility & recognizing patterns

• [00:36:00] Why Paul still loves doing the work—and the stories that keep him going

• [00:42:00] Universal tools: finding language for your needs and setting respectful boundaries

Notable Resources or Guest Links

• Paul Gilmartin – The Mental Illness Happy Hour

• Dr. Sarah Michaud – Author of Co Crazy

• Website: https://drsarahmichaud.com/

• Follow @leavingcrazytown on YouTube

=Dr. Sarah Michaud, Author of Co Crazy Follow @leavingcrazytown on YouTube Website: https://drsarahmichaud.com/

If you loved this conversation, subscribe, rate, and review Leaving CrazyTown—and share it with a friend ready to reclaim their voice and leave confusion behind.

Leaving CrazyTown is a raw, real-talk podcast hosted by Finn and Dr. Sarah Michaud, two recovering addicts turned relatable guides on the wild ride of codependency healing. Each episode dives deep into the chaos of dysfunctional relationships, identity loss, and emotional recovery—with humor, honesty, and hope. Subscribe and buckle up—we’re leaving CrazyTown.

The holidays can feel like a warm hug… or a codependent meltdown waiting to happen. In this episode, Finn and Dr. Sarah break down the five biggest shifts that help codependents survive (and seriously enjoy) the holiday season. From asking for what you actually want, to ditching rituals that don’t serve you anymore, to saying “no” without the spiral — these tools help you stop overgiving, overspending, and overextending so you can create a holiday grounded in sanity and joy.

Takeaways

• Ask for what you want — clarity prevents resentment.
• Set a spending limit early to avoid overgiving and January shame.
• “No” is an option — and a powerful one.
• Update or ditch family rituals that drain you.
• If you’re not having fun, you're probably abandoning yourself.

Key Timestamps

• [00:42] Why holidays activate codependency more than anything else

• [02:20] Tip #1: Asking for what you want (without guilt)

• [04:47] Tip #2: Stopping overspending & overgiving

• [07:05] Tip #3: Learning to say no

• [11:36] Tip #4: Ditching old rituals & building new ones

• [13:45] Tip #5: Fun, humor, and joy as recovery tools

Notable Resources & Links

• Dr. Sarah Michaud — Author of Co Crazy: https://drsarahmichaud.com/

• Follow Leaving CrazyTown on YouTube: @leavingcrazytown

Share this episode with a friend who needs permission to enjoy their holidays without losing themselves.

Notable Resources Dr. Sarah Michaud, Author of Co Crazy Follow @leavingcrazytown on YouTube Website: https://drsarahmichaud.com/

If you loved this conversation, subscribe, rate, and review Leaving CrazyTown—and share it with a friend ready to reclaim their voice and leave confusion behind.

Leaving CrazyTown is a raw, real-talk podcast hosted by Finn and Dr. Sarah Michaud, two recovering addicts turned relatable guides on the wild ride of codependency healing. Each episode dives deep into the chaos of dysfunctional relationships, identity loss, and emotional recovery—with humor, honesty, and hope. Subscribe and buckle up—we’re leaving CrazyTown.

In this Leaving CrazyTown x Eternally Amy crossover, Dr. Sarah Michaud joins Amy Liz Harrison for a Boozeless Book Club deep dive into Elizabeth Gilbert’s “Eat, Pray, Love” aftermath and the complex layers of love addiction, codependency, and emotional recovery.Together, they unpack how relationships can become the new addiction — and how self-awareness, radical honesty, and recovery tools can pull us back from the brink. It’s a raw, funny, and deeply human conversation about obsession, boundaries, and learning to let go with love.

Key Takeways

1. Codependency isn’t care — it’s control in disguise. We rationalize, rescue, and lose ourselves believing we’re helping.

2. Love addiction mimics substance addiction. That chemical “high” of early romance can hijack logic and keep us stuck in fantasy.

3. Denial runs deep. Whether it’s alcohol, love, or someone else’s chaos — our minds will justify anything to avoid loss.

4. Recovery is responsibility. Owning “my part” doesn’t mean taking all the blame — it means claiming my healing.

5. Letting go isn’t abandonment. It’s choosing freedom over fantasy, truth over chaos, and peace over control.

Key Timestamps

• [00:02:10] The reality of codependency: it’s not just about addicts

• [00:06:45] Love addiction and that early “high”

• [00:12:00] Denial, rationalization, and the bitters metaphor

• [00:22:30] The trap of self-abandonment in relationships

• [00:33:00] Boundaries, separation, and self-responsibility

• [00:46:00] Recovery tools from the Big Book that still hold true

• [00:52:00] Owning your part, making the call, and telling the truth

  Amyiz Harrison “Eat, Pray, Love” and related works

• Women, Sex, and Addiction by Charlotte Kasl

• Co Crazy by Dr. Sarah Michaud

• Al-Anon & SLAA resources

• Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins (contrast discussed)

Resources & Mentions

• Amy Liz Harrison “Eat, Pray, Love” and related works

• Women, Sex, and Addiction by Charlotte Kasl

• Co Crazy by Dr. Sarah Michaud

• Al-Anon & SLAA resources

• Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins (contrast discussed)

If this episode hit home, share it with someone who’s learning to love without losing themselves. 🧠 Subscribe, rate, and review Codependency Recovery: Leaving CrazyTown wherever you listen — and join the conversation on YouTube @leavingcrazytown.

Leaving CrazyTown is a raw, real-talk podcast hosted by Finn and Dr. Sarah Michaud, two recovering addicts turned relatable guides on the wild ride of codependency healing. Each episode dives deep into the chaos of dysfunctional relationships, identity loss, and emotional recovery—with humor, honesty, and hope. If you loved this conversation, subscribe, rate, and review Leaving CrazyTown—and share it with a friend ready to reclaim their voice and leave confusion behind. 🔗 Website: drsarahmichaud.com | YouTube: @leavingcrazytown

This week, Finn and Dr. Sarah welcome writer and recovery advocate Jason Mayo, author of In Case of Emergency: Break Childhood and founder of Sober Not Subtle. In this honest and often hilarious conversation, Jason opens up about the hidden trauma of childhood divorce, the messy intersection of mental health and sobriety, and the art of starting over without self-destructing. Together they unpack perfectionism, parenting, depression, and why “connection is the opposite of addiction.”

Key Takeaways:

• Trauma isn’t just tragedy — it’s the quiet disconnection that shapes how we love and cope.

• “I’m not a bad person getting good; I’m a sick person getting well.”

• Mental health and recovery aren’t separate stories — they’re one healing arc.

• Boundaries are love in action: “No” is a full sentence.

• Connection and purpose are the antidotes to isolation and burnout.

Timestamps:

[00:01:00] Jason’s recovery story — from emotional bottom to connection.

[00:06:00] Marriage in sobriety and rebuilding trust after addiction.

[00:13:00] The “three C’s” of marriage — a hilarious family lesson.

[00:15:00] The ACEs test and realizing childhood divorce as trauma.

[00:18:00] What trauma really is — and why it never fully disappears.

[00:25:00] Mental health crisis and what real support looks like.

[00:31:00] How sharing pain turns into purpose.

[00:35:00] Why men struggle to talk about emotions — and how to start.

[00:41:00] Recovery, community, and the healing power of connection.

[00:44:00] Jason’s top two recovery tools: boundaries and purpose.

Resources Mentioned:

• In Case of Emergency: Break Childhood by Jason Mayo

• SoberNotSubtle.com

• Co-Crazy by Dr. Sarah Michaud

• Gabor Maté – The Myth of Normal

• Peter Levine – Waking the Tiger

• Dr. Sarah Michaud, PsyD — Author of Co Crazy

• Leaving CrazyTown YouTube Channel

• Website: https://drsarahmichaud.com/

If this conversation hit home, share it with a friend in recovery who’s learning to set boundaries or find their voice.

Leaving CrazyTown is a raw, real-talk podcast hosted by Finn and Dr. Sarah Michaud, two recovering addicts turned relatable guides on the wild ride of codependency healing. Each episode dives deep into dysfunctional relationships, identity loss, and emotional recovery—with humor, honesty, and hope.Subscribe, rate, and review—and share with a friend who’s ready to leave CrazyTown.

Shame spirals: we all know them, we all hate them, and most of us try to outrun them. In this raw, revealing, and hilariously honest conversation, Finn and Dr. Sarah break down what a shame spiral really is, where these intense emotional reactions come from, and why they often have deep roots in childhood patterns. Using Sarah’s real-life moment of “F-bomb shame” as a jumping-off point, the duo explores how old wounds get activated, why our reactions can feel so outsized, and what it takes to recover with compassion, clarity, and grounded truth.Takeaways

• Shame spirals often signal past trauma or early developmental wounds.

• Overreactions usually mean the present moment has touched an old story.

• Self-compassion is the antidote to shame—not self-punishment.“Pull the lens back”: most shame triggers aren’t life-altering in reality

• Healing requires understanding, kindness, and choosing not to re-abuse yourself.

• Key Timestamps

  • [00:00] – Welcome back: what shame spirals feel like

• • [01:00] – Recognizing hidden vs. overt shame

  • [02:00] – The “speaking regret” shame spiral

  • [03:00] – Sarah’s F-bomb video story & activation

  • [06:00] – Childhood memories that amplify present shame

  • [10:00] – Tools: pulling back the lens, practicing self-compassion

  • [12:00] – Finn’s shame around talking too much in groups

  • [15:00] – Trauma origins of shame patterns

• • [18:00] – Healing, compassion, and the parent-you-needed approach

  Notable Resources & Guest Links

  • Dr. Sarah Michaud, PsyD — Author of Co Crazy

• • Leaving CrazyTown YouTube Channel

  • Website: https://drsarahmichaud.com/

  Subscribe, rate, and review Codependency Recovery: Leaving CrazyTown.Share this episode with someone who spirals into shame and needs real-talk tools to get out.

  Codependency Recovery: Leaving CrazyTown is a raw, real-talk podcast hosted by Finn and Dr. Sarah Michaud. With humor, honesty, and a healthy dose of clinical insight, they tackle the chaos of dysfunctional relationships and offer real tools for healing. Subscribe wherever you listen and follow @LeavingCrazyTown on social media for more real-talk recovery content.