This episode features a candid discussion between two couples, exploring the nuances of when marriage counseling is appropriate and, more critically, when it might not be. We tackle sensitive topics like emotional abuse and physical abuse, emphasizing that not all relationship problems can be solved through traditional couples therapy. The conversation highlights the importance of discerning the right approach when facing severe relationship challenges, offering valuable relationship advice and touching on communication skills.What happens when the marriage counselors—the ones who are usually helping everyone else—walk through deep suffering of their own? In this powerful roundtable conversation, Erik and Erica talk with David and Kris Sommers. They are experienced marriage counselors open up about the unseen struggles that shaped their lives and their faith: infertility, adoption, chronic illness, miscarriages, unmet expectations, and the slow work of healing over time. They don’t give clichés or easy answers. Instead, they offer honest reflections, timeless wisdom, and the kind of counsel that comes from living it out—not just reading about it. Whether your marriage is in a hard season or you're walking through personal suffering, this conversation will remind you: 🕊️ You're not alone. 🛠️ There are tools to endure and rebuild. 💛 And God still meets us in the middle of the mess. 00:00 Intro 03:11 Near Death Experience 15:30 Navigating Infertility and Adoption 25:05 How infertility effects you spiritually 35:00 Supporting each other through Chronic Illness 42:55 How to trust God in the trial 50:00 Handling bad advice from people in the trial 58:59 Marriage Counselors give their advice to young couples 104:05 How can a couple know it's time to get counseling 112:48 How to handle abuse in marriage 123:24 What does a biblical marriage look like? 131:10 Expectations, childhood abandonment, and how it worked out for David and Kris