There's been plenty of smoke around Michael Jackson for decades. But when it comes to him, it seems like so many of us have decided we'd rather not look too closely at where it's coming from. Some of us have even convinced ourselves there aren't any flames. And what’s that about? What makes us defend the people we love, even when the things we've heard about them are deeply troubling? And at what point does loving someone's talent make it harder to reckon with the possibility that they may have caused harm?

Michael Jackson is our case study. But this conversation is about so much more than Michael.

For this conversation, we've gathered a roundtable of people who bring very different perspectives to the question.

Emmanuel Dzotsi, award-winning journalist and podcast host whose work includes Serial, Reply All, and This American Life.

Herb van der Poll, Seven Days arts contributor, multi-instrumentalist, and longtime musician who has toured nationally and fronted his own band for more than 25 years.

Brooke Coleman, television and film producer whose credits include FOX, Sony Pictures, BET, Bravo, Universal Music Group, and Def Jam Records.

Pendarvis Harshaw, Oakland-raised journalist, author, and educator, former host of KQED's Rightnowish, and author of OG Told Me, a memoir about growing up in Oakland.

Together, we get into the uncomfortable stuff: the allegations, the music, the loyalty, the double standards, the cultural baggage, and the ways we decide who gets our forgiveness — and who doesn't.

This episode was reported, mixed, edited, scored and hosted by Myra Flynn, with sensitivity editing by Jane Lindholm. James Stewart is our producer. Joe Mullins is our visual director. With help from Mike Dunn and Miranda Syp, who provided us with the artwork for this episode. Myra Flynn composed our theme music with production help from Tim Sonnefeld. All other music is either by Blue Dot Sessions. Blac Will composed the instrumental track "Forever" used throughout the episode. Find Blac Will and more of his music at blacwill.com. Homegoings was originally produced by Vermont Public and is now an independent podcast.

You can also find Homegoings on Substack, YouTube, and Instagram.

What happens after the world decides who you are? This episode of Homegoings with Myra Flynn explores the complicated power of passing with three people who are often read one way, but know themselves another. Together, these guests and host Myra Flynn unpack race, identity, belonging, and the choices we make when we're misread. This episode is for anyone who has ever been mistaken for someone they're not—or learned to make themselves legible just to survive.

Homegoings with Myra Flynn is reported and hosted by Myra Flynn. James Stewart is the producer, Elodie Reed is the editor and graphic designer and Joe Mullins is the visual director. Our theme music is composed by Myra Flynn, with production from Tim Sonnefeld. Music in this episode is by Blue Dot Sessions, and James Stewart contributed sound design. Homegoings was originally produced by Vermont Public and is now an independent podcast.

Find us on Substack, Instagram and YouTube @homegoingswithmyraflynn.

Raphael “Tweet” Shawan is one-third of the late-'90s R&B group Next, whose hit song “Too Close” became an anthem of sexuality and desire. For years, fans knew him as one of R&B's most recognizable sex symbols. What they didn't know was that behind the music, he was living with the lasting impact of sexual abuse and the silence that often follows it. In a rare and deeply personal interview—and the first independently produced episode of Homegoings with Myra Flynn—Tweet shares a story he's never fully told publicly: why he left Next, what years of silence cost him, and how he's learning to let go.

If you’re a survivor of sexual assault or know someone who is, there is help available. You can call the RAINN National Sexual Assault Hotline at 800-656-4673, or visit their website: https://rainn.org/help-and-healing/hotline.

Homegoings with Myra Flynn is reported and hosted by Myra Flynn. James Stewart produces the show, Elodie Reed is acting editor and graphic designer, Joe Mullins is the visual director. Our theme music is composed by Myra Flynn, with production from Tim Sonnefeld. Music in this episode is by Next, Ideal, Myra Flynn and Blue Dot Sessions. A big thank you to Tweet, and also to Nichole Hill. Homegoings was originally produced by Vermont Public and is now an independent podcast.

Find us on Substack, Instagram and YouTube @homegoingswithmyraflynn.

Host Myra Flynn isn’t just curious about the tensions in our society — she’s drawn to them. On Homegoings with Myra Flynn she works with her guests to mine the gems out of those tensions and challenges the listener to hear something beautiful in what might be very painful. Otherwise — what’s the point of going through it?

Subscribe to this feed where you’ll hear more soon!

Homegoings with Myra Flynn is reported and hosted by Myra Flynn . James Stewart produces the show, Elodie Reed is acting editor and graphic designer, Joe Mullins is the visual director. Music is by Myra Flynn and Blue Dot Sessions. The photo in our logo is by Jack Rowell.

Homegoings was originally produced by Vermont Public and is now an independent podcast.