Matt Sanderson is the author of I Wonder: Notes on Spirituality without the Supernatural. My conversation with Matt is poignant and vulnerable touching on his loss of faith, the loss of his mother and his search for meaning without dogma and the supernatural.

Matt tells us his faith journey from an atheist upbringing into evangelical/charismatic Christianity, drawn by community and an intense prayer experience, then later unraveling beliefs after being challenged, doubling down, and gradually deconverting through wider reading (philosophy, neuroscience) without a dramatic exit. Matt explains the book began as an attempt to sort through accumulated ideas, intensified after his mother’s death and his reflections on grief without belief in an afterlife. He discusses religious experiences as common human phenomena (via William James), religion’s techniques for evoking awe, non-reductionism, meaning as created (influenced by Viktor Frankl), the value and challenges of secular community, and joy/comedy as truth-telling. He frames wonder as both questioning and awe.

https://mattsanderson.co.uk

https://mattsanderson1.substack.com

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I Wonder: Notes on Spirituality without the Supernatural

https://link.amazon/B0dtMgo6T

Show Notes

https://gracefulatheist.com/2026/10/13/matt-sanderson-i-wonder/

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Deconversion

https://gracefulatheist.com/2017/12/03/deconversion-how-to/

Secular Grace

https://gracefulatheist.com/2016/10/21/secular-grace/

Author Stella McCormick has written a powerful memoir, Deliver Us From Mother: Faith, Fear, and the Family Cult That Broke Me. The story she tells in the book and shares with us on the podcast is one of surviving a single family cult, purity culture, sexual assault and desconstruction.

Stella is more than a survivor. She has thrived. Today she is a sexual assault advocate for the Army where she helps other victims of sexual assault process their experience.

Stella on TikTok

https://www.tiktok.com/@stella_mccormick

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Deliver Us From Mother: Faith, Fear, and the Family Cult That Broke Me

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Show Notes

https://gracefulatheist.com/2026/09/14/stella-mccormick-surviving-a-single-family-cult/

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Deconversion

https://gracefulatheist.com/2017/12/03/deconversion-how-to/

Secular Grace

https://gracefulatheist.com/2016/10/21/secular-grace/

Karis Burkowski and ​David Fitzgerald have written an amazing book called Clearly Written by Boys: A Woman’s Guide to the Bible. The book takes this question seriously:

Clearly Written for Boys is a book about the Bible, and Christianity, and the problematic relationship both have had with women throughout their histories. Karis and David come from Christian backgrounds and are “cleaning up their own house.”

Join me in hearing from these two amazing authors and the critical message they have about women in Biblical history and for women of today.

https://www.clearlywrittenbyboys.com

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Clearly Written By Boys: A Women's Guide to the Bible

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Show Notes

https://gracefulatheist.com/2026/07/20/steve-ghikadis-humanism-from-the-heart/

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Deconversion

https://gracefulatheist.com/2017/12/03/deconversion-how-to/

Secular Grace

https://gracefulatheist.com/2016/10/21/secular-grace/

Steve Ghikadis is the author of Humanism From the Heart: Building Bridges Beyond Belief.

Steve Ghikadis is a Humanist Officiant, who conducts secular marriages, memorials, and many more meaningful life-affirming celebrations.

Raised as a freethinker, Steve has been married to a Christian for over a decade. He and his wife, Cindy, believe in the importance of bridging the gap between believers and non-believers. Their two young children are being raised in an interfaith household and are free to choose their own path.

He serves as an Ambassador for Humanist Canada, Recovering from Religion, and Sunday Assembly.

Website:

https://steveghikadis.com

Facebook profile:

https://www.facebook.com/share/14bX5omASis/?mibextid=wwXIfr

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Humanism From the Heart: Building Bridges Beyond Belief

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Show Notes

https://gracefulatheist.com/2026/07/20/steve-ghikadis-humanism-from-the-heart/

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Deconversion

https://gracefulatheist.com/2017/12/03/deconversion-how-to/

Secular Grace

https://gracefulatheist.com/2016/10/21/secular-grace/

Julia tells her story of deconstructing the Jehovah's Witnesses and the expected life of suburbia.

Julia was torn between two grandmothers: an evangelical and a Jehovah's Witness. She became a Jehovah's Witness and was all in. She got married and had kids and supported her husband who was an elder. That is when the boredom set it. She wanted more, she wanted to travel and be a need-greater. Before they were to leave to Ecuador, her husband tragically died of cancer refusing blood transfusions along the way.

Julia's life became messy as she started a long process of deconstruction. This included low-lights like having her children tell on her to the elders. And highlights going out on her own to travel and meet people's needs with out dogma.

Today Julia is free. She kayaks, bikes and travels internationally. She says "I wake up every day thinking, 'I love this world, and I love this life.'"

Show Notes

https://gracefulatheist.com/2026/06/29/julia-deconstructing-jws-and-suburbia/

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Deconversion

https://gracefulatheist.com/2017/12/03/deconversion-how-to/

Secular Grace

https://gracefulatheist.com/2016/10/21/secular-grace/

In this solo episode I discuss Artificial Intelligence. Should we agree with Richard Dawkins that Claude is conscious? Probably not, for several reasons. I talk about how LLMs work, why I don't think they are conscious and how a humanist should respond.

Topics:

• (Semi) Technical description of how Large Language Models work
• LLMs are trained on the sum total of human hopes and fears
• Why all the intelligence in AI systems is from human sources
• Why I do not believe LLMs can be conscious in principle
• The Hype problem
• The Humanistic response to AI

Show notes

https://gracefulatheist.com/2026/06/07/humanism-and-ai/

Here are several source material links from my research for this episode:

• When Dawkins met Claude Could this AI be conscious?
• https://unherd.com/2026/05/is-ai-the-next-phase-of-evolution/?edition=us
• ELIZA and the missing secretary
• https://theconversation.com/my-search-for-the-mysterious-missing-secretary-who-shaped-chatbot-history-225602
• Alan Turing and the Turing test
• https://academic.oup.com/mind/article/LIX/236/433/986238?login=false
• Metaphors for how the brain works
• https://mechanism.ucsd.edu/bill/teaching/w14/phil151/metaphorsandconceptionsofbrain.pdf
• Alison Gopnik on Sean Carroll’s pdocast
• https://www.preposterousuniverse.com/podcast/2025/03/17/308-alison-gopnik-on-children-ai-and-modes-of-thinking/
• Neil deGrasse Tyson on the Late Show with Steven Colbert
• https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Qon72VKH30
• AI as normal technology
• https://knightcolumbia.org/content/ai-as-normal-technology

Counter points to my argumetns on LLMs:

• Are LLMs conscious?
• https://preposterousuniverse.com/podcast/2026/08/10/363-chandra-sripada-on-how-llms-and-humans-are-cognitive-cousins/
• Do LLMs plan?
• https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=locKEKxG3os

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Deconversion

https://gracefulatheist.com/2017/12/03/deconversion-how-to/

Secular Grace

https://gracefulatheist.com/2016/10/21/secular-grace/

Liam is a friend and a colleague of many years. He is a member of the Religious Society of Friends often called Quakers. Liam and I have shared deep conversations before and after my deconversion. I respect the way Liam holds and lives out his beliefs.

You might be surprised. The British Liberal Quakerism Liam lives out on a daily basis is very close to my version of Humanism, Secular Grace. He is a great example of a religious humanist who cares about people over dogma.

Quakers in Britain: https://www.quaker.org.uk/

Quaker Faith: https://www.quaker.org.uk/faith/read-about-quaker-faith

Quakers in USA: https://www.fgcquaker.org/

American Friends Service Committee (Charity): https://afsc.org/

Show Notes

https://gracefulatheist.com/2026/05/24/liam-a-friend-and-a-friend/

Join the Deconversion Anonymous Facebook group!

Deconversion

https://gracefulatheist.com/2017/12/03/deconversion-how-to/

Secular Grace

https://gracefulatheist.com/2016/10/21/secular-grace/

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I recently read Antimemetics: Why Some Ideas Resist Spreading by Nadia Asparouhova and it blew my mind. Just reading the intro I knew I needed to do an episode on the subject. Almost everything about deconstruction and deconversion is antimememetic. It is a significant idea that resists spreading. Listen to the episode to find out how.

All of the following are antimemetic:

• Doubt
• Deconstruction
• Deconversion
• Atheism
• Humanism
• Secular Grace

https://gracefulatheist.com/2026/05/03/doubt-is-antimemetic/

SNL Skit: Mom Confession

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-wQhY5CMMl4

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Antimemetics: Why Some Ideas Resist Spreading

There is No Antimemetics Division

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https://gracefulatheist.com/2017/12/03/deconversion-how-to/

Secular Grace

https://gracefulatheist.com/2016/10/21/secular-grace/