In this episode we focus on organizational change, drawing from strategies both within the book, "The HSI Movement” and from equity-focused higher education research. Dr. Roman Liera, an associate professor in the Department of Educational Leadership at Montclair State University, joins the conversation to discuss the book and his research on racialized organizational change and equity in higher education. We discuss the way faculty cluster hiring can be used as a lever of change, and how it can disrupt the traditionally decentralized, racially biased hiring processes at the department level. We also explore the distinction between first order and second order change, with Dr. Liera providing concrete examples of how institutions can move from surface-level adjustments to deeper cultural and mindset shifts. Moreover, we discuss presidential and senior leadership hiring, including how racial and gender schemas shape perceptions of who is considered "presidential," and what questions institutions should ask when seeking equity-minded leaders. We close with a reflection that meaningful change may never be fully visible within our lifetime, but that even small contributions to the movement carry significant long-term impact. Grab a pen, take notes, and nerd out with the nation’s leading scholars on racialized organizations.

Guest:

Roman Liera (he, him, his)

Associate Professor, Montclair State University

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/roman-liera-b701a151/

Instagram: @DrRo

Show Notes:

• Liera, R., Rodgers, A. J., & Villarreal, C. D. (2026). Diversity ideologies and racial commodification: Navigating reappointment, tenure, and promotion as early career faculty of color amid organizational DEI co-optation. Innovative Higher Education. https://doi.org/10.1007/s10755-026-09892-7
• Liera, R., & Ching, C. (2025). Tinkering towards racial equity: White community college faculty disrupting and preserving their white innocence. Journal of Community College Research and Practice, 49(10-11), 653-668. https://doi.org/10.1080/10668926.2025.2510272
• Liera, R., & Desir, S. (2023). Taking equity-mindedness to the next level: The equity-minded organization. Frontiers in Education, 8. https://doi.org/10.3389/feduc.2023.1199174
• Virella, P., & Liera, R. (2024). Nice for what? The contradictions and tensions of an urban district’s racial equity transformation. Education Sciences, 14(4), 420-434. https://doi.org/10.3390/educsci14040420

APA Citation:

Garcia, G.A. (Host). (2026, October 18). From 1st Order to 2nd Order Change within Racialized Organizations (No.804) [Audio podcast episode]. In ¿Qué pasa, HSIs?.