Mel Ainscow is an eminent academic and practitioner who is particularly interested in the universal challenge of developing forms of education that make a difference for all children and young people, no matter their characteristics or backgrounds. Drawing on his extensive work in the UK and overseas, Mel explains the six critical aspects that need to be embraced as part of a more effective approach to ensuring that every child matters and they matter equally.

During the discussion Mel explains how some existing policy positions and historical approaches hinder progress in ensuring greater equity and inclusion. He is at pains to argue that context matters because social factors, political factors and cultural factors impinge on potential improvement. He draws on some recent work where effective cooperation and collaboration have encouraged more schools to share their knowledge and approaches. He then ponders why less progress in tackling issues beyond the school gate have not been tackled. He closes the chat with optimism as he recalls recent progress in Dundee and the Merseyside Region.

Mel is always good value. He's engaging and realistic. We hope the chat is helpful and don't forget his most recent book "Reforming Education Systems for Inclusion and Equity' is available at all good bookshops, including online.

Enjoy

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It is always a pleasure to welcome a guest onto the Frank and Stan Chat who actually watches our weekly chats regularly. Laura McPhee is Director of Education at the University Schools Trust in London. She's a former Headteacher who is committed to social justice and also lectures at the South Bank University. She's currently finalising her second book before it goes to publication later this year. It follows her first book, which was very well received, called 'Tackling Poverty and Disadvantage in Schools'.

The chat begins with Laura explaining her career journey before we break with tradition and ask her, 'What has caught her eye this week?' She explains the optimism she felt when the government published its long-awaited violence against women and girls (VAWG) strategy on 18th December 2025, This followed a clear manifesto commitment to halve this abuse within a decade. Laura explained how the timing of the release of the strategy was unfortunate, being so close to the Christmas break. She is expecting schools to begin to consider any necessary changes in their approach shortly. She was shocked, however with the way the media and social media responded and immediately took a polarising viewpoint.

Stan considers the difficulty older citizens face in using a largely digital system within the NHS. Frank celebrates the amazing evening he watching 'Singing in the Rain' at the Royal Exchange Theatre as well as the good news that northern railways are likely to improve and places are going to be better connected. It is going to be a long wait, but he hopes schools will begin to consider the employment opportunities and help deliver the improvements.

A great chat. Enjoy

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It has taken a little while to agree on a slot but, at last Adrian Bethune, founder of Teachappy, part-time Primary School teacher, Lead author for Oxford University Press' International Wellbeing Curriculum, Deputy Chair of the strategic board for Well Schools, Associate lecturer at Oxford Brookes University, Wellbeing Governor at Broughton Community Schools and most importantly, father to two young boys joins our chat. And what a brilliant guest he turns out to be. In fact, the discussion around pupil and teacher wellbeing engulfs the conversation so much that we only have time for Adrian to share his 'what's caught your eye' this week slot.

The conversation considers some of the practical issues that can support better wellbeing for staff, but this then leans into how teaching staff can support their pupils better in managing their own physical and emotional wellbeing. Adrian draws on international comparisons and considers the vast array of research on the topic of well-being in making a case for it to be more prominent in judging how effectively schools are led.

Adrian draws attention to a book he is currently reading called 'Poor' by Katriona O'Sullivan. He explains how the author draws on her struggles as a child and how they continue to impact her through adult life. Frank then recalls the work of Kerry Hudson called 'Lowborn' that follows a similar vein. These act as a timely reminder of the reality of deep poverty.

A brilliant chat. Adrian has agreed to return to the chat, and we are very keen to make this happen.

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Happy New Year! We are delighted to upload a fascinating chat we had with Dame Kathy August. Kathy is a former Headteacher, a senior local education authority leader, Manchester's first academy CEO, former Board member at Ofsted and Honorary Visiting Professor at Salford Business School. She's also an author and now works as an independent adviser. So, an impressive and varied career which comes to light during a wide ranging chat.

Stan gets things moving by considering 'survivor bias'. He reflects on the choices made by politicians and education leaders who are heavily influenced by their own education experiences. These are usually viewed as successful. Stan makes the point that more attention needs to be given to those failed by the system to better understand what needs to be changed to help them succeed, therefore avoiding inherent 'survivor bias.

Kathy then reflects on the proposal to introduce MAT inspections. She's in favour but highlights the dangers and pitfalls in the proposal. She is concerned how a value for money judgement would be reached and how the associated inspection Framework would be developed. Frank explains how MAT inspections could be used to reduce the impact and number of school inspections.

Frank then considers a quote he saw from Neil Jurd, author of The Leadership Book and former guest on the Frank and Stan Chat. We discuss the impact of influencers and Frank wonders whether he is such a person. Kathy offers insight into the negativity of such individuals. The quote is copied here

'I am sometimes asked to account for the success of influential people whose leadership style is so different from the inclusive and positive leadership style that I advocate. The usual examples are self-serving politicians whose style is divisive and egotistical, or further along the same scale, dictators, and despots. But of course, there are self-centred, narcissistic, and egotistic people thriving in senior positions in all walks of life. You may know some, and their energy and impact are likely to be negative.

These people inhabit senior positions, but their intrinsic motivation is usually self-centred; they lead in order to serve their own purposes. For their own recognition and wealth, rather than for any greater good. In my experience, these people do not lead in the truest sense of the word. I call this 'false leadership'; it is presented as leadership, and it looks like leadership from a distance, but it lacks the meaning, substance and positivity of the real thing.'

There is so much more covered in the chat but you will have to watch or listen to find the gems.

Enjoy.

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The final Frank and Stan Chat of 2025 sees them chatting with Jan Allen, a former Headteacher of a large secondary school in Rochdale and now the Director of the Education Community Partnership. Jan decided to step away from headship at a time when many would have decided to stay. She had achieved a Good Ofsted but felt she needed a new challenge. As someone committed to the community she served, she decided to try and support students and young people who face multiple and considerable challenges through working with voluntary agencies and charities. She admits the recent experiences have provided a deeper insight into the impact of poverty and the challenges young people face.

Stan considers the Reform Party's proposals to utilise the spaces available in rarely used churches to help address the SEND crisis. He believes it is a crazy and ill-considered idea. Jan then reflects on the well-publicised Safeguarding report on the approaches to behaviour management at Mossbourne MVP in London. We all consider the response from the government's behaviour tsar over the issue and how the report author appears to have successfully held a secure handle on the issues. Frank then reflects on an article he recently published by Forum Strategy that focuses on the importance of the community.

It's a wide-ranging discussion. We hope you enjoy it. We are back in early 2026. Happy festive greetings from us both.

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This week we were fortunate to have Lois McClure, an amazing colleague who has worked at the Coop Group for 13 years and took an apprenticeship route into her career. She explains how she became aware at College that she didn't want to go to university even though there was pressure from the teachers to do so. She knew she wouldn’t enjoy 'going to lectures and then going back to a room to write an essay about it'. So, she embarked on a varied career with the Coop which saw her winning a number of national awards as an apprentice, speaking to large audiences about her work and the value she places on cooperative values as well as accepting any new challenge with a 'Yes mentality'.

Some parts of the chat are worthy of sharing with students thinking of apprenticeships as well as emphasising the way she embraces new challenges. It is ok to feel nervous.

Stan considers the learning he gained from a conference he attended the day before on workplace psychology and Frank draws attention to Alex, a follower of the chat who shared their Spotify Wrapped outcomes which saw over 450 minutes listening to our chat in the past year. Amazing. We would love to have this colleague along as a guest.

With just two more Frank and Stan Chats before the Christmas break we have begun reflecting on some of the many highlights this year. We will share these in the two remaining editions.

Thank you for your support.

Enjoy!

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In January 2021, the gents were connected to Henry May, a social entrepreneur based in Bogotá. Henry had moved to Colombia to begin social projects to improve the lives of less fortunate young people. He set up Coschool, a social enterprise focused on creating and implementing experiential learning programs. His teaching experience in London and his own personal education journey helped him realise how important the non-academic aspects of education were. He also knew how powerful sport could be in encouraging young people to engage more fully with education. He set up Coschool and the Huracan Foundation to achieve his ambition of a fairer life for all.

Henry has a clearly defined education philosophy, and it is refreshing to hear a colleague explain so cogently what many educators believe in the UK but feel unable to express.

Stan kicks off by explaining how shocked he was to find how AI can manipulate images for sexual gratification. The chat considers whether banning things helps. Henry then explains how character education, a young person's wellbeing and opportunities for social beneficial activities increasingly play an important part in Colombian education. Frank then considers how two words can change the responses to attendance data.

It's a belting chat. Henry has agreed to return to our chat. We can't wait.

Enjoy

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