In this episode, Sam and Gen welcome Dean and Jackie Richards, a couple who have been married for 24 years, for a candid conversation about what it actually takes to stay together.

Dean and Jackie share the highs and lows of their marriage, including the unmet expectations, unresolved trauma, and painful patterns that nearly brought their relationship to an end. They reflect on what had to change, what they had to confront, and how healing became possible when they stopped pretending everything was fine.

Jackie also shares how God checked her attitude and challenged the way she was showing up in her marriage. Together, the conversation explores faith, humility, responsibility, forgiveness, and the difference between simply staying married and actually rebuilding connection.

Sam and Gen also reflect on why they continue to do this podcast, what they hope others can learn from their divorce, and why conversations like this matter for couples who still have a chance to choose healing before it is too late.

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